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View Poll Results: The country with the best economic system is:
Canada 6 8.00%
Japan 5 6.67%
Germany 11 14.67%
China 2 2.67%
United States 39 52.00%
Denmark 2 2.67%
Norway 6 8.00%
Australia 4 5.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-04-2019, 11:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
You could have saved a lot of words and just asked, Are you (a) socialist, (b) capitalist.

Really, this question is at the heart of the 2020 election, which in many ways is shaping up to be a referendum on how socialist the US should be. ...
Not really. The 2020 election will be more about whether America ought to be a pugilistic and insular nation, or one that's open to (and respectful of) the world.
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Old 07-05-2019, 02:14 AM
 
3,123 posts, read 2,703,036 times
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Here is my list. I only look at economy, and not other factors like weather, politics and culture.

1. Australia
2. Denmark
3. Norway
4. Germany
5. Canada
6. Japan
7. United States
8. China

Australia is #1 because they have a great health care system, low taxes and relatively high salaries. Norway has the highest salaries and more welfare, but is really expensive due to regulations. Denmark and Germany is more free, but their salaries and welfare is a little bit weaker. They all have high tax rates.

Canada is a mixed bag. Japan is an interesting case. Its a very well ordered society, their economy is booming, but work structure is quite backward. United States still has high salaries, but has a lot of poverty and health care is extremly inefficient. Has declined a lot the last 20 years.

China is not in the same league as the rest. Salaries are low, corruption is quite high, infrastructure is often low quality and their health care is not very good. China has improved a lot the last 30 years, but they are far away from having a first world economy.

Last edited by Camlon; 07-05-2019 at 02:23 AM..
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Old 07-05-2019, 02:16 AM
 
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There really isn't a country by country economic system. Everything's being standardized across the world. That's how the global elites want it. I'm sure they laugh at us because we still think in terms of countries.

That said, I'll play along. I like Australia for it's privatized Social Security system. You've basically got universal 401k plans that force employee/employer to invest 9% each in real assets and I don't believe it's like our Social Security where the government can come in and change the formula.

I am not in favor of socialized medicine (or whatever you want to call it), but Australia does seem to have good life and health indicators and doesn't spend a fortune for it. America is too inept, corrupt, and too focused on fighting about who pays the health care bill after people get sick instead of preventing the sources of disease in the first place, IMO.
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Old 07-05-2019, 02:23 AM
 
26,090 posts, read 28,500,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
Here is my list. I only look at economy, and not other factors like weather, politics and culture.

1. Australia
2. Denmark
3. Norway
4. Germany
5. Canada
6. Japan
7. United States
8. China

Australia is #1 because they have a great health care system, low taxes and relatively high salaries. Norway has the highest salaries and more welfare, but is really expensive due to regulations. Denmark and Germany is more free, but their salaries and welfare is a little bit weaker. They all have high tax rates.

Canada is a mixed bag. Japan is an interesting case. Its a very well ordered society, their economy is booming, but work structure is quite backward. United States still has high salaries, but has a lot of poverty and health care is extremly inefficient. Has declined a lot the last 20 years.

China is not in the same league as the rest. Salaries are low, corruption is quite high, infrastructure is often low quality and their health care is not very good. China has improved a lot the last 30 years, but they are far away from having a first world economy.
I think all are good points except for Japan. Since when is Japan's economy booming?
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Old 07-05-2019, 02:28 AM
 
3,123 posts, read 2,703,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I think all are good points except for Japan. Since when is Japan's economy booming?
During the last few years.

United States has had quite high growth, but it has not been well spread out and employment has suffered. You can see how Japan employment is doing much better than the US during the last 10 years.

Like many european countries the danish economy has stagnated. I decided to show Denmark instead of EU because I wanted to show the stagnation is not just southern europe. You can see that Japans GDP per capita PPP fell behind from 1990 - 2010, but then Japan started to recover.


Employment Rate



GDP per capita PPP



Also take a look at this video from VisualPolitik


Last edited by Camlon; 07-05-2019 at 03:45 AM..
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Old 07-05-2019, 08:12 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,909 posts, read 6,260,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Not really. The 2020 election will be more about whether America ought to be a pugilistic and insular nation, or one that's open to (and respectful of) the world.
By "open to (and respectful of) the world" do you mean being walked all over. Such as joining "protocols" such as the Paris Climate Accords, which are a thinly disguised mechanism to transfer wealth from productive Americans to unproductive satraps? Or no border enforcement other than an "honor system" under which 80% of migrants don't show for asylum hearings. I don't believe in listening to "world opinion" when the holders of that opinion are leaders on our dole, whether through direct aid or subsidization of defense.
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Old 07-05-2019, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
8,323 posts, read 6,166,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
As well intended as the question is, I think it's circular nonsense. The countries with monolithic populations have systems that work very well for them but would likely break down in a multicultural nation like the US or even Canada. The authoritarian countries, ditto.

If what you mean is "where should the US go," I think studying the successes of Canada would be the most productive. Not adopting their system wholesale, but studying what they get right under similar conditions to the US.

We could learn from a 'whole model' that way, but trying to cherry-pick elements from, say, Sweden is just argument bait. You can't change just one socioeconomic factor.
I actually think Germany is closer than Canada, only because they manage to employ a huge portion of their population in manufacturing while have the same things the US has...High-ish COL and Standard of Living/Wages, etc...Canada is a borderline PetroState.
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Old 07-05-2019, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Haiku
4,071 posts, read 2,574,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Not really. The 2020 election will be more about whether America ought to be a pugilistic and insular nation, or one that's open to (and respectful of) the world.
What planet are you living on??? The progressive shift of the democratic party was a center point of the debate and has been all over the news. The burning question is whether the Dems will alienate all the moderate Republicans by being too progressive, i.e., socialist. A lot of people, me included, think that the moderate Republicans are ripe for grabbing from Trump because he is scaring the crap out of them. So the 2020 election is going to come down to the question of socialism - will moderate voters accept or reject what the Dems are doing?
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
8,323 posts, read 6,166,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
What planet are you living on??? The progressive shift of the democratic party was a center point of the debate and has been all over the news. The burning question is whether the Dems will alienate all the moderate Republicans by being too progressive, i.e., socialist. A lot of people, me included, think that the moderate Republicans are ripe for grabbing from Trump because he is scaring the crap out of them. So the 2020 election is going to come down to the question of socialism - will moderate voters accept or reject what the Dems are doing?
This hijacks the thread, but I know a LOT of republicans that didn't vote for him the first time that are more likely to vote for him today.
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,456 posts, read 3,760,783 times
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If the U.S. had universal health care, I would consider it to have the best system in the world. But it not only doesn't have that, it has a health care system that kicks you when you're down by tying health insurance to employment.

If you're a productive worker you are probably healthy. If you're not healthy it's going to be hard to hold a job. If you lose your job you lose your health insurance. If you get sick without health insurance the system will bankrupt you quickly.

To add insult to injury, only about half of U.S. health insurance plans are even good. The other half don't pay out on claims if they can help it, using all kinds of excuses to avoid paying. Even many employer plans are not good, and have such high out of pocket costs that they can still bankrupt people.
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