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View Poll Results: The country with the best economic system is:
Canada 6 8.33%
Japan 5 6.94%
Germany 11 15.28%
China 2 2.78%
United States 37 51.39%
Denmark 2 2.78%
Norway 5 6.94%
Australia 4 5.56%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-10-2019, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
2,999 posts, read 1,643,736 times
Reputation: 3470

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
You could have saved a lot of words and just asked, Are you (a) socialist, (b) capitalist.

Really, this question is at the heart of the 2020 election, which in many ways is shaping up to be a referendum on how socialist the US should be. So, just look at the polls and you will have your answer on what American attitudes are on it. It doesn't matter what I think, but what the voters decide next year.
The way you've framed it is by far too stark of a choice. Unfortunately, in our polarized ideological climate the juxtaposition of these two "choices" reveals a dangerous blind spot that exists on BOTH the left and the right (in the USA).

The left needs to better appreciate the role of capitalism in producing abundance. The right needs to square up to the unyielding fact of bad luck and the indispensable role of safety nets in a market economy. Effective social safety nets also help mute democratic demand for reactionary economic nationalism.

Quite a few politicians on the left seem to not to know or care that today’s model social democracies also boast model capitalist economies that are in many ways more economically laissez-faire than the "wickedly" capitalist American system.

According to the Heritage Foundation’s Index of Economic Freedom, for instance, Denmark where taxes are high and welfare spending is lavish, outscores the United States in the security of property rights, ease of starting a business, openness to trade, and monetary freedom.
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Old Yesterday, 09:44 PM
 
5,441 posts, read 2,013,160 times
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Denmark. Very business-friendly market economy and ranks very highly for quality of life. Denmark's GDP per capita is higher than the U.S.

The U.S. is great at concentrating wealth in the hands of a relative few, but for the bottom 90% it's just okay. Quality of life, health care, education have all fallen relative to other countries. "Make America Great Again" has done nothing to improve health care, education, improving wages and so on.
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Old Today, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,608 posts, read 2,654,642 times
Reputation: 2551
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
Yeah I donít give two craps about any ďgapĒ between rich and poor. That entire argument is shut down and nullified completely by an entire laundry list proving what nonsense it is - that the alleged ďpoorĒ in this country live better than the middle class throughout Europe. They have more cars, more TVs, more living space, and more opportunities. Who cares if the richest 100 people are worth $30 billion on average instead of $15 billion so the ďgapĒ just doubled?! Totally irrelevant as it means nothing whatsoever. The vast majority, say 95%, of that wealth is tied up in stock and investments, capital that is working for the entire economy. Jeff Bezos only even had a successful company for at best 20 years. He isnít the heir to some 200 year old fortune. Heís proof that this system works perfectly, so perfect itís beautiful really, that mere ideas and genius and hard work can DESTROY entire industries and bring major companies to their knees! Thatís the type of beauty I like to see in a system where all of the money in the world isnít enough to stop a great idea. Where Netflix can be founded by a couple dudes who get laughed out of the office of the powerbroker in that industry, Blockbuster, with all of this money behind them and a mere two decades later go take a dump on the site where one of the last Blockbusters died at their hands lol.

No, the system works great, thanks very much. Almost all of the money and power is concentrated in people who built these companies in the last 30 years and changed the world around us. I donít see that coming from any other country. There will be new revolutions in industry and new companies and these powerhouses now know that staying on top is a whole different ballgame and if they donít keep up, theyíll be the next MySpace or Blockbuster or Toys R Us. Thatís how it should be. Companies are no more immune to financial ruin than individuals. Ultimate competition leads to a better world in general.

I freely and proudly admit I donít care about the bottom 10% even 1/100 as much as I care about the top 10%. If we did nothing but worry about the laziest, dumbest elements of society weíd never take a step forward as a species. Progress has always been the domain of the top of the human race and the rest of the people are dragged kicking and screaming into the future letís just be honest about that. There have always been poor people, stupid people, lazy people and there always will be. Iím not wasting 5 seconds thinking about their plight when I can focus on science and technology and how to make sure weíre creating a society that gives motivation and tools for the next Bill Gates and the next Elon Musk to arise. For whatever reasons, despite our supposedly mediocre education system, itís still always America that completely and utterly dominates the technological innovation and entrepreneurship of the world. What is all this great European education accomplishing? What is the end goal? Is it to create good little socialist sheep who serve the system? The American economy and system creates winners, it creates monumental men and women who drive humanity forward. Iím not seeing the result of the ďgreatĒ European education and economies. Itís just mediocrity and entitlements. If you want mediocrity, great, I donít. Iíd rather a society where the best of the best have maximum opportunity to succeed and the losers are left behind than a society where everyone is satisfied enough and nobody is that great, just a big oatmeal bowl of mediocrity. Hard pass from me.
Greatness and Materialism are the two terrors of human society.
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Old Today, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,608 posts, read 2,654,642 times
Reputation: 2551
I don't like any of them, I voted Japan.

But Japan is a very corporate society so it is very problematic.
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Old Today, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,608 posts, read 2,654,642 times
Reputation: 2551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
The way you've framed it is by far too stark of a choice. Unfortunately, in our polarized ideological climate the juxtaposition of these two "choices" reveals a dangerous blind spot that exists on BOTH the left and the right (in the USA).

The left needs to better appreciate the role of capitalism in producing abundance. The right needs to square up to the unyielding fact of bad luck and the indispensable role of safety nets in a market economy. Effective social safety nets also help mute democratic demand for reactionary economic nationalism.

Quite a few politicians on the left seem to not to know or care that todayís model social democracies also boast model capitalist economies that are in many ways more economically laissez-faire than the "wickedly" capitalist American system.

According to the Heritage Foundationís Index of Economic Freedom, for instance, Denmark where taxes are high and welfare spending is lavish, outscores the United States in the security of property rights, ease of starting a business, openness to trade, and monetary freedom.
Abundance hasn't been a good thing.

It hasn't offered an abundance of public goods which is more important than consumer products.
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