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Old 07-07-2019, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,590 posts, read 3,019,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Where do you get that? The cost of housing in the U.S. is cheap--at least compared to other developed countries. Compare the high cost locales here like New York and San Francisco to other places like London, Tokyo, and Hong Kong. Our high cost locales are typically cheaper.
Y'know, for a general econ discussion, I can't think of a less meaningful comparison.

Got any data on the delivered cost of a Maybach in each of those burgs?
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:33 AM
 
13,224 posts, read 17,767,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InchingWest View Post
Plus most Europeans seem to live in nice homes built out of qualtity, very long lasting materials, that were put together using the highest levels of craftsmanship. People gave consideration to quality and thought about what they would pass on to their children.
Google search - Plattenbau please. Take a vacation and take public transportation past the tourist attractions.
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
This is true. Our construction quality in the U.S. is craptastic.
How many houses have you built or owned and maintained in Europe and the US?
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Old 07-07-2019, 12:02 PM
 
26 posts, read 9,450 times
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I disagree.

The house in the US may be big, but it is generally far removed from anything worthwhile. A house that is equally close to notable cities as would be typical of Western Europe would be rather expensive.

Areas with cheap housing are usually remote and have little infrastructure, so you will need a car to get around, meaning that you will be forced to spend a lot of money on the car itself and related things like fuel. You can't just use public transport, cycling, etc., except maybe in NYC, Toronto, Montreal, and a couple other places. Even more importantly, you will be spending time and effort. Obviously, you can get a cheap house somewhere in northern Finland, but nothing compares to the US/Canada situation outside maybe Russia.

The food is often very expensive, though it depends on the region. For example, the same amount of apples costs 2.7 USD in Amsterdam, 2.8 USD in Berlin, 3.5 USD in Chicago, and 4 USD in NYC.

Whenever you go to a restaurant, you are forced to pay 20% in tips instead of 0 to 10%, which really accumulates. And then there's the large separate tax on top of the original price specified in all the menus. Cheap restaurant prices in North America are a complete illusion.

Intellectual pastimes are much cheaper in Europe. For example, museums are typically free or cheap. By contrast, US museums are quite expensive, not to mention few. Stuff like classical concerts is also much more expensive and scarce.

Undergraduate education at a decent university is dramatically more expensive in the US, obviously. Young people typically have to take huge loans if they are ambitious.

Vacations are pretty expensive in the US because everything is just so impossibly remote. E.g., you can fly between London and Moscow 5 times for the price of flying between NYC and Moscow. Planes from places other than NYC (e.g., Toronto or Chicago) are typically much more expensive. If you want to visit anything apart from Latin America or another part of your own country, you will have to pay through the nose.

Rent in US cities is typically quite high, and as a tourist you'd have to pay a lot for hotels. For example, a small hotel in central NYC is something like $100. Alternatives like Airbnb are suppressed by a combination of the hotel lobby and the urban underclass. By contrast, you can have a giant house in Greece next to ancient centres of civilization for a pittance for your holiday.

What you get is not more bang for buck, but rather simply more bucks.

Last edited by Hums; 07-07-2019 at 12:47 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 04:33 AM
 
Location: Washington State
18,473 posts, read 9,561,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vana360 View Post
Curious what others think. Having traveled extensively to Asia and Europe, in my opinion, United States allows you to obtain more without spending more. That is to say get a bigger house, cars, vacations, consumer goods without spending as much as others spend in other countries. I would say Canada is a close second.

And a lot of this has to do, in my opinion, with lower taxes and less restrictive socialist policies, such as free education, health care, etc. when compared to other countries. For example, paying almost 50% of your money to the government is insane, and there are many countries in Europe that do, such as France. Think about it... you basically work 40 hours and get paid for 20 hours.

I know the States are not perfect (by any measures), however, do provide more economical value.
I lived and worked extensively in most all areas of the globe and in many ways the USA provides the most bang for your buck in certain locations. Cars are cheaper, gas is cheaper, salaries are higher, taxes are lower than the overwhelming majority of countries and you have so many variety of choices including perfect climates or rainy, or dry, cold, hot. The life I have in USA with my beautiful 4 car garage large modern house, winter home in Phoenix, 3 fantastic cars....just would not be obtainable in most countries of the world except the super rich. I agree Canada is second.
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Old Yesterday, 07:20 PM
 
26,085 posts, read 28,484,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Y'know, for a general econ discussion, I can't think of a less meaningful comparison.

Got any data on the delivered cost of a Maybach in each of those burgs?
Our average cost areas are below what is typical for most other developed countries.

The high cost comparison was meant to point out that even the high cost locales in the U.S. that people complain about are cheaper than similar type metro areas in other developed countries--and I think you know that. You just enjoy being deliberately obtuse so you can ride your high horse.
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Old Yesterday, 07:23 PM
 
26,085 posts, read 28,484,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threestep View Post
How many houses have you built or owned and maintained in Europe and the US?
All you have to do is visit to see the difference in quality. That was my experience in Germany & Austria.
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Old Yesterday, 09:05 PM
 
5,619 posts, read 8,548,332 times
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The U.S. Is much larger than Chicago and NYC.
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Old Yesterday, 09:11 PM
 
5,619 posts, read 8,548,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
All true.
But if you didn't have 1925 a month maybe Belize would be more attractive. I mean, no one gave you the 80 acres and the cars and so forth. At some point you were doing pretty well for yourself, and you have some money management skills that serve you well.
But for someone else who didn't have hard assets like your property and your cars, their Social Security check may serve them better in Belize. Maybe.
I do have good money management skills, but my 80 acres were $65k in 2012, my house was $50k (high quality construction, matwrials, R30 insulation, includes cistern, solar setup etc.)

If you wish to make the case.... Please do. But you haven't.
(Genuine Request, I'm interested.)

Last edited by Themanwithnoname; Yesterday at 09:21 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 09:20 PM
 
5,619 posts, read 8,548,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand&Salt View Post
How extensively did you look, if all you found was a grass hut?

We have a luxury condo with an infinity pool, 2 huge showers, internet, cell, steak if we want and we "waste money" on European travel at least once a year. $40 in property taxes a year, $80 for two health care a month (NO deductible NO co-pay).

Oh yeah, and we live beachfront. Looking at the waves right now.

All this for less than $1,000 a month.

There are no homeless here, either.
Exaggeration to make the point. (You haven't given me any specifics to change my mind.... As I said, I'm open.)

You lost me at $1k/month and "condo"
I've lived in such, no way I'm going back to apartment or condo living.

I know a (local) guy who lives (entire cost, food, healthcare etc) on under $1k/!month SSDI.
I also know a couple who live on (annually) $7,500 SS and a few dollars from goats (I live in the mountains, a place people commonly go to vacation.... Just like the beach. Done both, like the mts.)

No infinity pool, but I prefer my 2 waterfalls and swimming hole (also infinity.)

But please share.... I'm interested and my income is well in excess of $1,925. If I find a place I like I'm not above splitting my time.


Please tell me more about this Shan·gri-La (specifics.)

And note:
You haven't established "better" just perhaps "on par" with CONUS.... Which was my point.
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