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Old 07-15-2019, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 3,363,709 times
Reputation: 13243

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
I buy this. The idea that most poor people are lazy just doesn’t pass the smell test.
Didn't even need to look at any replies before I knew this would bring the Econ Calvinists out of the woodwork.

Kudos for trying, though, with this fact-resistant FYJIGM crowd.

(IGM, too. Doesn't keep me from recognizing how the deck is stacked against anyone who doesn't start life with a ton of advantages, all of which are dismissed as a birthright and irrelevant to personal success.)
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Boston
2,872 posts, read 1,579,550 times
Reputation: 2559
I believe it. I am poor and have been trying to not be poor since I was 14. Usually, poverty itself keeps me poor. Cant really make money without money.

Crime/loss of property and small convenience fees, poor credit(I avoid getting a credit card now-i feel like I missed the boat-no one taught me what credit was and when bankers offered it to me at 18/19 i was thinking they were trying to swindle me , my mom told me pay in cash when you can), parents and friend needing money, not having a car. I buy clothes once every 4 months and rarely spend more than 200 dollars altogether on it. I dont have any jewelry or a macbook. I have no criminal record. I dont eat out much and when I do its usually with the coupons for fast food that get mailed out my house. I would like to eat at sweetgreen and other more organics spots. I haven't flown anything other than spirit air in 10 years. I have left the country in 5 years and i didn't pay for that.

I work at a warehouse in Baltimore. My job gave me tickets to an O's game. I came on a limescooter as it would be $7 cheaper than an uber (4$ v 11$)and only $2 more than the bus and much faster. I forgot my tickets at home and had to scooter there and back. ON the way back a scooter died, and I had to walk a ways to find another one. It ended up costing me $15 because to reload money on the scooter thy make you pay $5 at a time. By the time I got back to the game the pregame picnic they were holding for us was over. I had been relying on that picnic to be my dinner. I bought the smallest cheapest beer at the game so as to not make myself stick out. I spent another $3.49 on bread to finish grilling the 8 burger patties i had at home. That was supposed to be dinner for Saturday. Instead I had to spend another $6 staurday on a greasy nasty chicken box from Royal Farms. LEaving my ticket at home and coming back to the game cost me an extra $20.49
out of my bank account which stood at $73 before the game. I wasnt supposed to spend more than 12-13$.

Overdraft fees kill me sometimes because on my banking app the expenses dont usually post in real time or even within a few days. I can forget I got the $8 pack of water bottles on Saturdayday instead of the $4pack and be overdrafted 35 dollars on Monday.

Im pretty much ready to give up. Ive been reading on trying to improve but i dont have the luck. Just found out have 2 small learning disabilities as well. Most recently my phone was stolen and I cannot access any of my contacts on iCloud or through my carrier. Thats been a small setback. I cant afford to get a new phone till i get paid next friday.

I am 26 now I would agree that it would take me about 15-20 years to lift myself out of poverty/near poverty at this rate. Id like to focus on more longterm goals but my life is dominated by day to day travesties which are just inconveniences for wealthier people.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:50 PM
 
210 posts, read 67,799 times
Reputation: 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
Being poor and destitute sometimes means you can't make the same decisions that a rich person would make.
I'm sorry but that statement is completely inaccurate.
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:21 PM
 
2,829 posts, read 774,918 times
Reputation: 5038
I would want to read his book before commenting. Peter Temin is an economic historian (Emeritus at MIT) and his body of work isn’t in the economics of poverty. He’s ventured outside of his field before, writing a controversial paper asserting the Great Depression was NOT a monetary phenomenon. I didn’t find that paper compelling, but he’s clearly a bright, although elderly, Economist.
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:22 PM
 
3,928 posts, read 1,050,054 times
Reputation: 4514
What the OP said, and I'll repeat this part, for emphasis:

"With nearly nothing going wrong."

Many budgets don't account for for emergencies. They say savings is for emergencies. Then what? You have no savings.

Sometimes life hits you with a 1-2 punch and you lose your job and are hospitalized in the same year. Life takes more than you have to give.
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:23 PM
 
248 posts, read 117,740 times
Reputation: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by treasurekidd View Post
Not even CLOSE to being the truth. In 20 years of earning even a modest income, almost anyone can become a millionaire or pretty dram close to it. The ley is living below your means, staying out of debt, and saving and investing for the future. It really is that simple.
No way!

What was a 'modest income' 20 years ago in 1999? $30,000?

How much do you expect that this person could put away per annum? 20% and live on $24K? That would be $6,000.

What was the average market return the last 20 years - 4.5% according to Forbes article below.

Quote from article;
"What do you think is the annualized return of the S&P 500 (including dividends) over the past 20 years? 8% 10%? 15%? Try 4.5%. Really. Here’s the chart."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robisbi.../#29d9d07d5b1e


$6,000 at 4.5% over 20 years = $188,228.54
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:26 PM
 
3,928 posts, read 1,050,054 times
Reputation: 4514
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkypeanut View Post
No way!

What was a 'modest income' 20 years ago in 1999? $30,000?

How much do you expect that this person could put away per annum? 20% and live on $24K? That would be $6,000.

What was the average market return the last 20 years - 4.5% according to Forbes article below.

Quote from article;
"What do you think is the annualized return of the S&P 500 (including dividends) over the past 20 years? 8% 10%? 15%? Try 4.5%. Really. Here’s the chart."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robisbi.../#29d9d07d5b1e


$6,000 at 4.5% over 20 years = $188,228.54
There is a point past which you can no longer shrink your basic living expenses.

WOULD YOU WANT TO LIVE on $24k?
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:35 PM
 
248 posts, read 117,740 times
Reputation: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
There is a point past which you can no longer shrink your basic living expenses.

WOULD YOU WANT TO LIVE on $24k?
Well that's my point. I don't agree with 'treasurekidd'. If the person saved & invested (a more realistic) 10% they'd have around $94K - nowhere near the $1M amount.

I am wondering what 'treasurekidd' thinks.
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:39 PM
 
73,693 posts, read 73,527,754 times
Reputation: 51263
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkypeanut View Post
No way!

What was a 'modest income' 20 years ago in 1999? $30,000?

How much do you expect that this person could put away per annum? 20% and live on $24K? That would be $6,000.

What was the average market return the last 20 years - 4.5% according to Forbes article below.

Quote from article;
"What do you think is the annualized return of the S&P 500 (including dividends) over the past 20 years? 8% 10%? 15%? Try 4.5%. Really. Here’s the chart."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robisbi.../#29d9d07d5b1e


$6,000 at 4.5% over 20 years = $188,228.54
As long as we are cherry picking time frames why pick one of the worst 20 year periods which actually had bonds beat stocks..

Why not pick one like 1982 to 2002 which was 14% cagr ....20 years ago I was earning 90k selling electrical supplies, no college, here in ny ....a typical accumulation period really goes out more than 20 years ....for most of us it can run 30 - 40 years .... 20 year time frames for equities can be all over the map but going out 30 seem to have a reversion to the mean and most come out very close in the 9% range

Last edited by mathjak107; 07-15-2019 at 05:48 PM..
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
2,271 posts, read 4,269,515 times
Reputation: 2940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
I stopped reading when the article listed 'slavery' as the first cause. That there is someone with an agenda.
Why does that signal an "agenda"? Around 12% of the American population has ancestors who were enslaved in the United States, up until just a few generations ago. The article's claim is that slavery has contributed to "American inequality." I don't think that's an outlandish claim.
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