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Old 10-06-2019, 09:02 AM
 
6,614 posts, read 2,807,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
As I already addressed:

They didn't wake up that way one day without cause.
History (and many bad choices) are involved here.

Also if you'll check: many are homeless (certainly not all) because of willful and continued substance abuse problems.

And again; the claim was:


I have disproven this hypothesis.
Majority of homeless are middle age or older people and some have already served in the military.
A lot were put on the streets when they losts their homes from the banker created 2008 crisis.
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Old 10-06-2019, 09:14 AM
 
6,614 posts, read 2,807,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon652 View Post
Every time I see these so called experts putting out books about poverty I have to shake my head. Instead of admitting whats painfully obvious they decide to put their BS to absolve people of their personal responsibility.
As long as we have the wealthy and lobbyists purchasing politicians to rig the markets in their favor, then people have a valid complaint in blaming the system.

Don't like it, then get them out of the government then. Get Big Banking and Business Lobbyists out of our government.

It is not unlike those in other countries blaming the USA for their problems.
So, as a result many are coming around to agreeing we need to quit meddling in other countries internal affairs so they do not have any ammo to blame us then.
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:00 AM
 
3,595 posts, read 2,441,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon652 View Post
Anyway that was my anecdotal evidence. Now here is an undeniable fact. Its basic knowledge that having a kid is a major expense. It doesn't matter how poor or uneducated you are. This is a fact known by all. Meaning it doesn't take a genius to figure out the following "If I'm poor and struggling its not a good idea to have children because I will have even more expenses and struggle even more." So please explain to my why poor people have the highest birth rate in the US??
Poor people have the least access to family planning tools.
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Old 10-07-2019, 11:29 AM
Status: "Make Orwell fiction again" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
32,026 posts, read 14,375,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Poor people have the least access to family planning tools.
True, and many people did not become poor until after they had children.
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Old 10-07-2019, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,212 posts, read 693,708 times
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Having been in the position over the last 25 years to hire people to work for us, here are my observations.


We had those with real skills, whether learned or taught by us, and none of them ever went on with them to advance themselves. We gave a hand up to many who had trouble getting jobs because they had addiction problems they were fighting. Most of these were restricted because they couldn't keep a drivers license. We provided transportation and food during the day... but not one of them took this help to better themselves.


One long-term worker mismanaged his money and lost his house, ended up living with his family in 1 room, quit his job, ended up living in an rv with no plumbing etc. Some of these guys had kids they weren't supporting and often the child support problem results in no drivers license. Often their wives had addiction problems too.



Some had such skill levels and had such nice personalities, but in the end every one of them went on to go back into bad behaviors and disappeared. One died of drug overdose.



I know there are some people who have bad experiences, health problems, weather disasters, etc. that set them back. But I believe a whole lot of people are their own worst enemies. All but one of these people we tried to help have disappeared off our radar. I have a whole stack of W2's for those we couldn't find and I can't imagine how much trouble they are in with the IRS on top of the rest. Let's not always blame society, the USA, the politics, etc.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:18 PM
 
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Let's also not forget the hand that wealthy corporations like Proctor & Gamble have had in profiting from addiction.
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:34 PM
 
5,667 posts, read 8,686,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
What proof?


the claim.said "requires"

Th hat means that just ONE exception makes this claim nil and void.
I have provided several both generic and specific examples you are ignoring.



Many a 18 year old homeless person is not living in a tent in the woods but rather likely either living in a hotel room with parents or couch surfing with friends, has gone to 3-6 different high schools and if they do manage to graduate is going to struggle to get a high enough ASVAB to enlist.

yep. I agree with "may" take 20 years and "may" never happen.
A friend of mine is about to be 60 and lives in an apartment, and has a negative net worth. He freely admits that this is due to poor choices and allowing one of his daughters to bleed him dry for many years while she lives a nicer standard of living than he does.

As I said: personal choice.

But it's bull**** to make the claim the OP did.
Simply not true.


And since there is no typical soldier, there's no typical outcome. You can't extrapolate from data point of one.

Its not a data point of one. E-nothing s don't make much, but it's not poverty level when bennies are added.
SO, the day after you go to boot your out of poverty.
From there.... Personal choice.


Plenty of people do well with the military (Data point two is a cousin of mine who let the Army pay for his nursing school and ended up retiring kn his early 40s) Others do indeed get screwed up by the system, and the kids from the low income parts of town are often the most likely to end up on the front line because they're less likely to have a plan ('paramedic or translator sounds like a good career track') and are more likely to be misled by a recruiter trying to meet a quota.
I was infantry and a Force Recon Marine. I was lied to by recruters.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with getting out of poverry.

Your trying to distract from the subject at hand.


And there are a lot of one and done drifters. I've done that.

One of the more common veteran jobs down here is ... waiter. You get people who decided they hated the military and just want to go live by the beach for a while. And if you're 23 and don't mind splitting a 2 bedroom with a roommate, it's not a bad life because you can make $40K a year without working 40 hours a week. Until the hurricane hits snd you lose your job and your landlord doubles rent because the supply of undamaged housing units is way out of line with demand.

So again with the luck factor.
Ummm.... I've known chicks that got a degree and kept on waiting as it was better money. Good wait staff does really well.... And you touched upon it again.... Personal choice.
Just like I choose a low consumption lifestyle.

doesn't mean I don't have money. I just bought a tractor today (cash) that I'll resell at a nice profit.

But again: it's relatively easy to pull yourself out of poverty if you have the will, health, and self.discipline.
Many don't.
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:36 PM
 
5,667 posts, read 8,686,250 times
Reputation: 7818
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
Majority of homeless are middle age or older people and some have already served in the military.
A lot were put on the streets when they losts their homes from the banker created 2008 crisis.
I would argue it was a politician created Chris is loaning money to people who couldn't afford the house.... But lets.Move on from.your attempts to inject politics into the doscussion about pulling yourself out of poverty:


Yes, many are middle age. This in no way counters my previous statements about bad choices, personal responsibility, choosing the lifestyle, and how it doesn't take many years to pull yourself out of poverty.
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:41 PM
 
5,667 posts, read 8,686,250 times
Reputation: 7818
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Let's also not forget the hand that wealthy corporations like Proctor & Gamble have had in profiting from addiction.
I accidentally increased your reputation in grabbing at my tablet.

I didn't mean to because this is one of the most moronic things I've ever read.

we should blame a company that makes things that help society because some people use them in a manner other than directed?!?!?

so should we blame Shell or BP when someone uses a can of gas to burn down a house?
(That's the equivalent to what you just said)

should we blame the Swiss army (little humor there)when someone jams a pocket knife into someone else's neck?

do we blame Ford when someone drinks and drives?


WHAT IS IT WITH YOU PEOPLE AND IGNORING PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!?!??????!
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:37 PM
 
3,595 posts, read 2,441,880 times
Reputation: 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
I accidentally increased your reputation in grabbing at my tablet.

I didn't mean to because this is one of the most moronic things I've ever read.

we should blame a company that makes things that help society because some people use them in a manner other than directed?!?!?

so should we blame Shell or BP when someone uses a can of gas to burn down a house?
(That's the equivalent to what you just said)

should we blame the Swiss army (little humor there)when someone jams a pocket knife into someone else's neck?

do we blame Ford when someone drinks and drives?


WHAT IS IT WITH YOU PEOPLE AND IGNORING PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!?!??????!
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...it-in-oklahoma
Quote:
In 2007, Purdue executives pleaded guilty in the federal case to falsely advertising OxyContin as “less addictive” and “less subject to abuse and diversion” than other pain medications. The company agreed to pay $600 million in criminal and civil fines to the federal government, and $20 million to 26 states and the District of Columbia.
Maybe it's pharma executives who need to accept personal responsibility for the role their deception and misleading marketing played in pushing doctors to prescribe highly-addictive painkillers?

Somehow when discussing income inequality, or society in general, nothing is ever the fault of the wealthy decision-makers who are in charge of society. "Should've found your way out of the no-win scenario Capitalists created for you, dummy! PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!"
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