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Old 07-16-2019, 12:01 AM
 
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I think a lot of our problems of poverty have to do with fatherlessness. Even a lot of researchers on the left are admitting it, like this guy who used to be on the board of the National Organization for Women in New York:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vX6345eeq4
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
Also, it's important to remember that how a poor person does with their finances is none of our business anyway, especially if they are being self-sufficient.
I agree in theory it's none of our business. In practice, most poor people are receiving some sort of subsidy in one form or other. We don't incentivize better behavior. IE. We could not allow people to buy soda and junk food with food stamps. We could require classes in saving and budgeting, how to cook healthy food cheaply, etc. I'm convinced we don't push these things because too many people would lose power if more people were self sufficient.
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Old 07-16-2019, 02:52 AM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
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The first "nearly 20 tears" of your life, you have virtually no meaningful control of who you are or will ever be. That is when you are told who you will be, and you become just another member of your family, good or bad. The mold, generally, gets broken on only a few cases where a role model arises from outside the family. Otherwise, you turn out to be who you were raised to be.


For a child to turn out well, there need to be two positive elements. A foundation that at least neutral, not destructive, and the introduction of a sense of direction leading to self-made positive attributes. Inertia builds up in childhood that needs a force to overcome it.


Those are the nearly 20 years in which one must escape things going wrong, and for many, the trajectory is going wrong from the start.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
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Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
I just don't buy it. No group of people is subject to being incarcerated without committing a crime. If one group commits more crimes than another, they should be locked up without regard to a "we got enough of those" arbitration.


Income inequality is largely due to differences in competency. I've seen rich kids fall on their face, poor fatherless kids become President and everything in between.
There is plenty of data to show that minorities do not commit more crimes, but are incarcerated at much higher rates for committing the same crimes.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:04 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
The first "nearly 20 tears" of your life, you have virtually no meaningful control of who you are or will ever be.
Well, you can study your ass off in school.

Usually, that turns out better than if you didn't study your ass off.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
Escaping poverty is a value judgment? Wrong thread to be escaping to some adolescent fantasy of total freedom.

People don't realize how often they sabotage themselves financially. Being poor is not easy. It requires planning and attention.

There are steps along the way. Someday you go from being poor to being broke to having a little padding,and suddenly you aren't poor any more. Except the padding might take a decade of scraping every nickel and squeezing every dollar until the eagle screams.

Yeah, things don't always go right, but at least eliminate those downturns that you can control.
Becoming poor is one of the easiest things to achieve - all one needs to do is start buying things they don't need and get into deep unrecoverable debt. Or simply stop caring enough to work. Or develop a serious drug habit. Or get injured or sick without medical insurance. Or put all your money into a risky investment that fails. There are a thousand ways to become poor that don't require planning and attention.
The equalizer between rich and poor is that we all end up in the same place after short lives. So in the big picture it doesn't matter if you're Warren Buffet or a bum living under a bridge. Spending your life becoming rich is a waste of time because you can't take it with you and your life is spent like a gerbil on a wheel running as fast as you can until you die. So what if someone lives their life poor? in the long run what does it matter?
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
The first "nearly 20 tears" of your life, you have virtually no meaningful control of who you are or will ever be.
I don't think the subject of this thread refers to years 0-20.

You're absolutely correct in that children, through at least mid-teens, have nearly zero control of their lives other than to avoid bad elements as best they can. But I think the "20 years" under discussion is more the range 18-40 or so; from the beginning of adult responsibility to achieving average financial well-being.

Not that any such consideration matters to the EC crowd, convinced as they are that a voluntary drug habit at age 4 is the cause of all poverty. That, or iPhones at 6. Or something.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:18 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
You're absolutely correct in that children, through at least mid-teens, have nearly zero control of their lives other than to avoid bad elements as best they can.
Wait a minute. You think that a 10th-grader has no control over how well they perform in school? Usually, they can take AP classes at that point and earn credits toward college courses.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 3,363,709 times
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Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Wait a minute. You think that a 10th-grader has no control over how well they perform in school? Usually, they can take AP classes at that point and earn credits toward college courses.
And, of course, failing to take an AP load and get a 5.2GPA means they may as well just go shoot drugs on a street corner.

Cherry-picking a few elements of traditional success, as a vast number of posts in this thread do, is to miss the point that each of us grows up and into self-sufficient adulthood in a matrix. Perhaps any advantage is a good one, but when AP grade boosts are applied on top of a stable middle-class childhood, it means something different than when a child from a struggling family in a difficult overall situation gets a 4.3 in AP English.

No, I don't think most children can do much to assure themselves adult success - not much more than their family and life position already supports. Yes, there are exceptions. They tend to make headlines.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
7,261 posts, read 6,810,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
And, of course, failing to take an AP load and get a 5.2GPA means they may as well just go shoot drugs on a street corner.

Cherry-picking a few elements of traditional success, as a vast number of posts in this thread do, is to miss the point that each of us grows up and into self-sufficient adulthood in a matrix. Perhaps any advantage is a good one, but when AP grade boosts are applied on top of a stable middle-class childhood, it means something different than when a child from a struggling family in a difficult overall situation gets a 4.3 in AP English.

No, I don't think most children can do much to assure themselves adult success - not much more than their family and life position already supports. Yes, there are exceptions. They tend to make headlines.
The degree to which people want to ignore this data is kind of surprising. https://www.businessinsider.com/pare...quality-2014-1

Quote:
the amount of money people make is strongly predicted by what their parents earn. Up until a parent-household-income threshold of roughly $150,000, adult children tend to earn another $0.33 for every dollar their parents earn. Above that cutoff, the increase they see in their income based on their parents' earnings is less dramatic:
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