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Old 07-16-2019, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Boston
8,812 posts, read 2,580,250 times
Reputation: 6224

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All that schooling isn't worth the paper it's written on if you're not honest, punctual, dedicated, with a strong work ethic and good communications skills, when the educational smoke clears.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Kentucky
607 posts, read 342,855 times
Reputation: 2467
As I think about this more, I agree, escaping poverty, in my case, required a lot of effort and time. Out of high school I lived in a small town with absolutely no job opportunities. I ended up joining the Navy just to have a place to sleep and food to eat. All of my money I made in the navy (not much) was spent living it up in foreign ports and local bars. I could have saved it, but I was young and foolish, but I also did some pretty cool stuff. Once I got out of the navy I was working a minimum wage job going nowhere, so I went to college. I worked full-time, a second job on the weekend, and took 18 hours of classes. Eventually I graduated and got a real career. It was hard, I almost quit many times, but I kept going. I can finally say that I am finally in a good place.

Good luck to all, Rg
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 3,363,709 times
Reputation: 13243
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
All that schooling isn't worth the paper it's written on if you're not honest, punctual, dedicated, with a strong work ethic and good communications skills, when the educational smoke clears.
You forgot faithful, clean and reverent.

Not that you're necessarily wrong. It just smells of the middle-class smugness that permeates this and all similar threads, and the complete blindness that starting many rungs up the ladder, even in relatively modest middle-class circumstances, makes a nearly irreplaceable difference in life outcome and success.

I've known people with all your qualifications. They started poor, and are still poor - for all the reasons the horde of Babbitts here airily wave away.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:57 AM
 
2,011 posts, read 976,678 times
Reputation: 2626
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Well, you can study your ass off in school.

Usually, that turns out better than if you didn't study your ass off.
I made A's and B's in school. It didn't do me any good. I have a lot of health problems that make me unemployable. SSA uses the good grades and college achievements to say I could work a job somehow because that supposedly makes me 'adapt better' and I can suddenly do things physically I've never actually been able to do. So, even though I cannot physically hold down a job and never have, I cannot get disability and will eventually die in the streets or for lack of medical care (thanks to required copays to get seen or get medications I need to live when I cannot have any income). I'd been better off not trying to accomplish anything in life. They didn't hold the college against me when I first got disability, but suddenly they hold it against me and kick me off. If you have a lot of health problems and have trouble working, whatever you do you must not get any education or you'll be left to fend for yourself with nothing even if no employer will ever want you. Employers have never once been impressed with the grades I made in school. They cared about attendance, but not the grades. I often was sick, even as a child, and missed a lot of school. There is absolutely nothing I can do about it. I have never been able to keep from being sick.

My brother, on the other hand, rarely ever got sick. He didn't study. He often flunked classes and almost didn't graduate high school. He has never had a problem finding a job. He and the family loved to put me down my whole life for being sick and live by the philosophy that there is "no excuse" to not have a job.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:15 AM
 
Location: equator
3,971 posts, read 1,731,548 times
Reputation: 9899
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
All that schooling isn't worth the paper it's written on if you're not honest, punctual, dedicated, with a strong work ethic and good communications skills, when the educational smoke clears.
And none of THOSE fine qualities matter if management changes and new faces are desired.

I learned a new acronym from this article: FTE. It appears only they replied to this with the usual lack of empathy except for Quiet and Priscilla. Good for you two---always seeing the big picture.

Raise your hand if you're not an FTE.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Kentucky
607 posts, read 342,855 times
Reputation: 2467
I have tons of empathy, I'm also very humble. But I am FTE...
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Texas
10,867 posts, read 4,158,798 times
Reputation: 21510
Quote:
Originally Posted by treasurekidd View Post
Not even CLOSE to being the truth. In 20 years of earning even a modest income, almost anyone can become a millionaire or pretty dram close to it. The ley is living below your means, staying out of debt, and saving and investing for the future. It really is that simple.
This is not even close to the truth. And even if you do get close to being a millionaire, watch a major healthcare crisis eat away at that hard-earned money. You would need a whole lot of luck on your side in addition to hard work and saving money.

This is also the kind of spiel pushed by MLMs such as Amway. "You can get rich in this business if you work hard enough." Meanwhile, Federal Trade Commission statistics show that 99% of people actually lose money in these types of businesses.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Camberville
12,223 posts, read 17,013,823 times
Reputation: 20261
I've watched this happen in my own life. Raised in a middle class family that slipped into poverty due to mental illness. I lived in a rural area with no sidewalks and parents who wouldn't drive me to a job or let me use their cars (despite being unemployed themselves), so I saved what little babysitting money I earned and worked my tush off in school. Got a full tuition scholarship to one of the best private schools in the country and moved across country for school, thanks in part to a grandparent helping pay room & board in a rare moment of kindness.


I thought I had gotten out of it, and then I was diagnosed with stage IV cancer right out of college. I was making a low level-middle of the recession wage (35K a year - the same salary that the same, though then less technical, job had paid in 2000 10 years before) in a high cost of living area. Even with insurance and a salary that was high enough above the poverty line that I didn't qualify for assistance, I was living in poverty standards.


Some choices you don't get when you live in poverty:
- taking time off to manage illness
- safe and reliable transportation (relied on the kindness of coworkers or multiple hours on public transit, eventually had to buy a car that I couldn't at all afford when I no longer had the energy or immune system for public transit)
- ability to fill all of your prescriptions all the time
- ability to eat all of your meals, and the ability to eat healthy meals



Luck played a *huge* role in pulling out of the financial toxicity of cancer. I was lucky that despite my dysfunctional family, the value of education and saving was instilled in me (even if not modeled by my parents). I was lucky to have been born with above average intelligence and above average drive. I was lucky that my diagnosis came when I had a stable job with good insurance. I was lucky that I was able to pivot my career to take advantage of the free master's degree that I was lucky enough to be offered by work. I was lucky that so much of my life lined up right after the ultimate blow that I was able to take advantage.



But I've also watched $25 parking tickets (because I occasionally couldn't leave bed in the days after chemo to move my car to the opposite side of the street) balloon into more than $100 because I had to make the choice between filling a prescription and paying. I've worn ill fitting clothes to work because I couldn't afford to adjust my wardrobe as my weight fluctuated due to illness. I've eaten absolute crap because that's all that was on the shelf of the food pantry after waiting 2 hours on a weekend because most of their open hours are during the workday. Being poor is expensive in so many ways.



It took me until I was 30 years old and making 80K a year in a management role to feel like I could afford (read: not sacrifice my savings rate) to live without roommates, and my commute is over an hour to my suburban office in order to do that. I still fear every follow up doctor's appointment not because I'm afraid of dying if my cancer returned, but because I don't know how I'd pay for it.


Had I not already done everything right up until that point or had one more thing gone wrong, I wouldn't be OK right now. I hope to buy a home in the next 5 years - but by the time that happens, it will have taken me almost 15 years out of treatment to get to that point. 20 years doesn't sound far off.
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Old 07-16-2019, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Texas
10,867 posts, read 4,158,798 times
Reputation: 21510
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I've watched this happen in my own life. Raised in a middle class family that slipped into poverty due to mental illness. I lived in a rural area with no sidewalks and parents who wouldn't drive me to a job or let me use their cars (despite being unemployed themselves), so I saved what little babysitting money I earned and worked my tush off in school. Got a full tuition scholarship to one of the best private schools in the country and moved across country for school, thanks in part to a grandparent helping pay room & board in a rare moment of kindness.


I thought I had gotten out of it, and then I was diagnosed with stage IV cancer right out of college. I was making a low level-middle of the recession wage (35K a year - the same salary that the same, though then less technical, job had paid in 2000 10 years before) in a high cost of living area. Even with insurance and a salary that was high enough above the poverty line that I didn't qualify for assistance, I was living in poverty standards.


Some choices you don't get when you live in poverty:
- taking time off to manage illness
- safe and reliable transportation (relied on the kindness of coworkers or multiple hours on public transit, eventually had to buy a car that I couldn't at all afford when I no longer had the energy or immune system for public transit)
- ability to fill all of your prescriptions all the time
- ability to eat all of your meals, and the ability to eat healthy meals



Luck played a *huge* role in pulling out of the financial toxicity of cancer. I was lucky that despite my dysfunctional family, the value of education and saving was instilled in me (even if not modeled by my parents). I was lucky to have been born with above average intelligence and above average drive. I was lucky that my diagnosis came when I had a stable job with good insurance. I was lucky that I was able to pivot my career to take advantage of the free master's degree that I was lucky enough to be offered by work. I was lucky that so much of my life lined up right after the ultimate blow that I was able to take advantage.



But I've also watched $25 parking tickets (because I occasionally couldn't leave bed in the days after chemo to move my car to the opposite side of the street) balloon into more than $100 because I had to make the choice between filling a prescription and paying. I've worn ill fitting clothes to work because I couldn't afford to adjust my wardrobe as my weight fluctuated due to illness. I've eaten absolute crap because that's all that was on the shelf of the food pantry after waiting 2 hours on a weekend because most of their open hours are during the workday. Being poor is expensive in so many ways.



It took me until I was 30 years old and making 80K a year in a management role to feel like I could afford (read: not sacrifice my savings rate) to live without roommates, and my commute is over an hour to my suburban office in order to do that. I still fear every follow up doctor's appointment not because I'm afraid of dying if my cancer returned, but because I don't know how I'd pay for it.


Had I not already done everything right up until that point or had one more thing gone wrong, I wouldn't be OK right now. I hope to buy a home in the next 5 years - but by the time that happens, it will have taken me almost 15 years out of treatment to get to that point. 20 years doesn't sound far off.
This. Especially the fact that simply being poor is expensive in many ways.

Wealthier people won't check their privilege. They give themselves credit when the fact is they had parents relatives or a spouse who were able to help them, or they got lucky, and got a good job while more deserving candidates were cast aside. I graduated from a wealthy high school and the vast majority of my classmates are working in the family business or had family connections to get them internships after college and good jobs from there on. They take off work during the middle of the day to go play golf. (If a poor person did this it would be called "bad work ethics"). Even graduating from college during a recession year can affect a person's lifetime earnings, that's been statistically proven. Having a major illness, stroke, heart attack or cancer can set a person way back financially, even with health insurance factored in.

What I see on this thread is the common assumption that poor people don't work and just lay around all day. But many poor people work, even work two jobs. That's where the phrase "working poor" comes from.
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Old 07-16-2019, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Boston
2,872 posts, read 1,579,550 times
Reputation: 2559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
Your story is very familiar to me. I have an old friend who lives in utter poverty, except he is 67 years old. He is always sabotaging himself. "Forgetting" the tickets and being late to events is only one example. He has "lost" three cell phones in the last 10 years. He "lost" a $20,000 insurance settlement because he ignored collection letters from the IRS for years.

As I have noted before, it takes planning and discipline to be successfully poor.
why are you putting things in quotation marks. Did he not really lose his phones?
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