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Old Yesterday, 09:37 PM
 
1,419 posts, read 728,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
The fiat minimum wage (what we have in the US) is a snake-oil remedy to the problem of low-wage/low-skill employment.

The late liberal economist Paul Samuelson knew this 50 years ago. Why don't people know it today?

You only have to look at the results of rent control in NYC to see that these kinds of price controls are deleterious.
Travis T, New York City rent control within specific circumstances, caps the amount of rent a landlord may charge for a residence. the circumstances and the amount of the cap differ among differing agreements for different residences.

The federal minimum wage rate is the same minimum wage with extremely little regard for job differences among jobs or employees. It does not determine differentiations among wages. It's not wage regulation. NYC rent regulations and the minimum wage rate are not conceptualy similar.
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Old Today, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Ohio
20,347 posts, read 14,463,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
It's not wage regulation.

Yes, it is. It regulates the minimum amount that must be paid, even if that amount is in excess of the Cost-of-Living.


You get $1,201/month in Social Security benefits.

I get a Social Security benefit of $2,788/month, plus a pension of $1,878/month, for a total of $4,666/month.


I get my rent subsidized by tax-payers through HUD Section 8 and you don't, because you earn too much money where you live in the US and I live in an high Cost-of-Living area.


We can use the actual data:

$56,000 - $14,400 = $41,600

or express it as an hourly wage rate:

$26.92/hour - $6.92/hour = $20/hour


In some parts of the US, $7.25/hour is more than the "living wage" of $6.92/hour.


Some people earning $14,400 a year don't get HUD Section 8, because where they live a "living wage" is $6.92/hour and they can afford their own apartment without tax-payer subsidies through HUD Section 8.


Sorry to ruin your fantasy, but the US is not Iceland with a population of 379,000 people and a uniform Standard of Living and Cost-of-Living.
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Old Today, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
4,118 posts, read 728,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Travis T, to the extent of the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power, it reduces poverty among all of USA's working poor. Its effects upon all lower wage rate's and to a lesser extent upon most middle-wage rate's ranges from critical to substantial...
No it does not reduce poverty. On balance, it increases poverty. From another thread (names slightly changed):
Would you support a combination minimum wage/universal basic income?

Quote:
Suppose you're a 10-yr-old with an apple tree in your yard. In season, you can pick 10 apples per day and sell them for $1, giving you a nice bit of spending money. But you can't afford your dream bicycle on that (fancy bikes can now go for 5 figures).

Along comes Supposn and says, "tell you what I'm gonna do for you, kid. I'm gonna institute a $5 minimum apple price. We're gonna get you that dream bike."

But at $5 dollars, nobody wants to buy an apple except maybe the rich widow down the street who feels sorry for him once per week and buys. So his income goes from $10 day to $5/wk. thanks to Supposn's "help."
The fiat minimum wage is a 'something for nothing' solution. If you want to really help the poor, you can't just speak the 'help' into existence by fiat. You have to fork over some money. In the case of the 10-yr-old it would mean giving him $4 for every apple he sells at $1. Not just declaring a $5 minimum price for apples.
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Old Today, 08:05 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
2,806 posts, read 1,792,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody01 View Post
I would venture the opinion that not only is a minimum wage not necessary, it can be harmful. Why should someone that takes the risk and financial investment necessary to start a business be dictated what to pay their employees by the Gov't? It's all supply and demand after all.....those employers offering good jobs at high raises can attract the best employees...those that try to be cheap misers will end up with lousy staff and a bad product/service. The economy will force them to change or go under.....

https://steemit.com/politics/@danisc...-not-necessary

Unfortunately, the real minimum wage is always zero, regardless of the laws, and that is the wage that many workers receive in the wake of the creation or escalation of a government-mandated minimum wage, because they lose their jobs or fail to find jobs when they enter the labor force. Making it illegal to pay less than a given amount does not make a worker’s productivity worth that amount—and, if it is not, that worker is unlikely to be employed.” - Thomas Sowell
Except the cheap employers have not been forced to change that is why they are still paying low wages. Letting employers pay low wages does nothing but help them that is why they continue to do it there is little to no bad consequences for them. Productivity is a subjective thing employers can say an employee is this amount productive wither it is true or not. You just want to assume they pay the right amount or more based on productivity.
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Old Today, 08:10 PM
 
1,419 posts, read 728,100 times
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Originally Posted by Supposn: Travis T, to the extent of the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power, it reduces poverty among all of USA's working poor. Its effects upon all lower wage rate's and to a lesser extent upon most middle-wage rate's ranges from critical to substantial...
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
No it does not reduce poverty. On balance, it increases poverty. ...
Travis T, due to the concepts that drive wage differentials, the extent of the minimum rate's effects upon jobs' rates are inversely related to the differences between the minimum and a job's rate. Lower wage rates are greater, and higher wage rates are lesser affected by the minimum rate. But the minimum rate affects the entire spectrum of wage rates.
Can you explain your response?
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Old Today, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
4,118 posts, read 728,276 times
Reputation: 1323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Originally Posted by Supposn: Travis T, to the extent of the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power, it reduces poverty among all of USA's working poor. Its effects upon all lower wage rate's and to a lesser extent upon most middle-wage rate's ranges from critical to substantial...Travis T, due to the concepts that drive wage differentials, the extent of the minimum rate's effects upon jobs' rates are inversely related to the differences between the minimum and a job's rate. Lower wage rates are greater, and higher wage rates are lesser affected by the minimum rate. But the minimum rate affects the entire spectrum of wage rates.
Can you explain your response?
No I can't explain, because unfortunately I do not follow what you are saying.

Look back at the example of the 10-yr-old selling apples. After a minimum $5 apple price is imposed, his income goes down. You have not helped him; you've harmed him.
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Old Today, 09:35 PM
 
1,419 posts, read 728,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Yes, it is [regulation of wages]. It regulates the minimum amount that must be paid, even if that amount is in excess of the Cost-of-Living. ... Sorry to ruin your fantasy, but the US is not Iceland with a population of 379,000 people and a uniform Standard of Living and Cost-of-Living.
Mircea, the federal minimum wage rate is a minimum rate it does not intervene further.
The minimum rate statutes may only be applicable if an employer attempts to pay less than the minimum rate. To state the minimum wage rate regulates, rather than setting a single wage floor is nonsense.
But the minimum does have no less than substantial influence upon all lower and most middle-wage rates. Beyond the precise current minimum rate, (i.e. $7.25 per hour), that's due to the concepts of wage differentials rather than to federal statutes.
I don't know, what you meant when you referred to “It regulates the minimum amount that must be paid, even if that amount is in excess of the Cost-of-Living”?
You go on discussing individual employees' financial situations. I doubt that you actually advocate government unnecessarily micro-managing individual entities?

But all major industrial nations have some government or quasi-government provisions that perform a function similar to USA's federal minimum wage rate. Otherwise, our economies would vulnerable to not rare occurrences of wage rates “racing to the bottom”.
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