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Old Yesterday, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Near Falls Lake
2,806 posts, read 1,921,106 times
Reputation: 2644

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Tell that to FDR, the father of the minimum wage who said that it should be a living wage that will support a family.

A dishwasher typically makes $11 an hour, a taxi driver makes $12.50 an hour, a restaurant cook makes $12.80 an hour, a hair dresser makes $11.90 an hour.

These are typical jobs in America. You can complain all you want that the wages are too high and that these workers need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but it doesnt change reality. Not everyone can be some big shot Wall Street guy or a doctor.
So, let us hypothetically say that all the people you listed above (along with others) now make $15 where they previously made $12. Other more experienced employees who are making $15 will want more! Union contracts that are tied to the minimum wage will result in wages increasing for unions. The end result is pressure to increase the cost of goods and services. Are you under the illusion that prices will stay the same? Because of the increases, within a relatively short period of time they will be right back where they were.....at the bottom. So what do you do next?
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Old Yesterday, 02:30 PM
 
738 posts, read 155,391 times
Reputation: 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by carcrazy67 View Post
So, let us hypothetically say that all the people you listed above (along with others) now make $15 where they previously made $12. Other more experienced employees who are making $15 will want more! Union contracts that are tied to the minimum wage will result in wages increasing for unions. The end result is pressure to increase the cost of goods and services. Are you under the illusion that prices will stay the same? Because of the increases, within a relatively short period of time they will be right back where they were.....at the bottom. So what do you do next?
I just posted that very same statement made by FDR when he enacted the min wage.
And history has shown that is what happened.
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Old Yesterday, 02:52 PM
 
556 posts, read 629,265 times
Reputation: 820
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Most likely 75% of McJobs are done by robots within 5 years.
THere isn't a single McDonald's that I have been two in the last year that doesn't have the automating already starting.

Until there is a robot handing you the food and taking the change and cooking the food (someone has to wrap them until a robot does it), there will be people working there. Just fewer of them.
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Old Yesterday, 04:01 PM
 
5,013 posts, read 1,256,278 times
Reputation: 3915
Quote:
Originally Posted by carcrazy67 View Post
So, let us hypothetically say that all the people you listed above (along with others) now make $15 where they previously made $12. Other more experienced employees who are making $15 will want more! Union contracts that are tied to the minimum wage will result in wages increasing for unions. The end result is pressure to increase the cost of goods and services. Are you under the illusion that prices will stay the same? Because of the increases, within a relatively short period of time they will be right back where they were.....at the bottom. So what do you do next?
They push for $20.
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Old Yesterday, 04:06 PM
 
Location: San José, CA
3,273 posts, read 5,793,155 times
Reputation: 3221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
I guess I will never understand why some people think totally unskilled, entry level jobs should pay a "living wage" that will support a family. Working in a McD's should be a job for a teenager or retiree working part time to pick up some spending money. It should not be considered as a career.
I don't think $15 an hour in 2026 is a living wage. Our local McDonald's STARTS at $18/hour and that is not currently a living wage in 95110.

I run a business and I'm sorry to say that wage increases for this subset of labor isn't much of an effect on my P&Ls. It doesn't hold back our profits. We benefit most, in fact, when we pay our labor better than the competition which has the effect of reducing turnover and training costs.

We need to collectively align, exchange information, and stop allowing politicians who were purchased by some of the slummiest profiteers to lie to us.

I guess I will never understand why we're sometimes so eager to fight against our own interests.
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Old Yesterday, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
3,626 posts, read 1,638,039 times
Reputation: 6172
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Tell that to FDR, the father of the minimum wage who said that it should be a living wage that will support a family.

A dishwasher typically makes $11 an hour, a taxi driver makes $12.50 an hour, a restaurant cook makes $12.80 an hour, a hair dresser makes $11.90 an hour.

These are typical jobs in America. You can complain all you want that the wages are too high and that these workers need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but it doesnt change reality. Not everyone can be some big shot Wall Street guy or a doctor.
He may have said that, but he thought a living wage was 25 cents an hour, rising to 40 cents an hour. Adjusted for inflation, we're not far from the mark. What FDR was also setting up, however, was a barrier that employers would have to prove this had been paid. At the time, some places would fine workers, or not pay timely, or short wages, or fool people by saying they would be taught a job and would be free to start, but once trained and to wage, they were terminated with a new group brought on.

As for your list....a dishwasher is an appliance, not a career. Literally every person in the country has had to wash a dish at some point. I asked them all. So you're talking about a skill set that's been mechanized already and is at best a commodity.

A taxi driver may make $12.50 an hour, but if they do a little bit of training, they can become a tow truck driver and make more....or they can become a truck driver and make still further....or they can become a chauffer or a limo driver. Those all make more money....but it makes sense to START as a taxi driver.

A cook....I mean, do you know how many well paid cooks there are? Now, it does take time to go from a guy that heats up packaged stuff in the back to an ACTUAL cook, but there are a ton of places you can go with that skill.....if you develop the skill.

Hairdressers may start at that wage, but as soon as they have their clientele, they're going to rent their own spot. When they have overflow they bring in normal, they get the shop and rent the chairs. It's the most natural progression to move from employee to owner out there.

I took my SS statement the other day. It was nice to look at. My first year of working legally I made a whopping $393. Yet, I remember feeling so rich from it. It blew my $1 a week allowance so far out that I couldn't wait to do it again, and it was way more consistent than babysitting or farm labor had been. Everyday, run around and help this tennis instructor with some classes put on for kids. He himself was a teacher running a side hustle that was inexpensive yet a popular program for kids in the summer mornings. It was minimum wage. It was not a difficult job. Push comes to shove he wouldn't have needed me, but having me fetch everything allowed him to teach. That job and his referral got me a job at the grocery store. Again...not a living wage, but it was yet another step up for me. Further, the following summer he wanted to know if I'd come back, and I could also get more hours taking care of the lawn at some rentals he'd bought. I hope I thanked him, but I already had the better job at the grocery store.

Minimum wage sucked - but I got better
Teacher pay in SD had ranked dead last in the nation for over a decade then - but he had tennis and rentals on the side that wouldn't pay for a full wage, but complemented his salary. Thinking back, many of the teachers had side hustles...some which grew into full on businesses....where they left their lower paying teaching job.

Learn one thing today. The job I do today is not the job I will be doing 20 years from now. Don't say it with fear of automation, simply accept it and figure out your path forward.
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Old Yesterday, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Where rhotic consonants are either absent or intrusive
8,907 posts, read 5,250,151 times
Reputation: 14605
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
The father of the minimum wage disagrees with that.

Why do you think FDR said the minimum wage should be a living wage to support a family?
When did FDR ever say that minimum wage should support a family?
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Old Yesterday, 06:28 PM
 
725 posts, read 440,945 times
Reputation: 813
Milton Friedman said it best.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z__o52sk
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Old Today, 02:36 AM
 
12,931 posts, read 4,666,068 times
Reputation: 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by carcrazy67 View Post
So, let us hypothetically say that all the people you listed above (along with others) now make $15 where they previously made $12. Other more experienced employees who are making $15 will want more!
Yes, thats the whole point. A higher wage floor increases the leverage of not only the people at the rock bottom but workers somewhat above that level. Its a good thing. Not a bad thing.

No it does not lead to everyone just making the same because of inflation. Thats a talking point that has been debunked by reality again and again.
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Old Today, 02:40 AM
 
12,931 posts, read 4,666,068 times
Reputation: 5258
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
He may have said that, but he thought a living wage was 25 cents an hour, rising to 40 cents an hour. Adjusted for inflation, we're not far from the mark. What FDR was also setting up, however, was a barrier that employers would have to prove this had been paid. At the time, some places would fine workers, or not pay timely, or short wages, or fool people by saying they would be taught a job and would be free to start, but once trained and to wage, they were terminated with a new group brought on.

As for your list....a dishwasher is an appliance, not a career. Literally every person in the country has had to wash a dish at some point. I asked them all. So you're talking about a skill set that's been mechanized already and is at best a commodity.

A taxi driver may make $12.50 an hour, but if they do a little bit of training, they can become a tow truck driver and make more....or they can become a truck driver and make still further....or they can become a chauffer or a limo driver. Those all make more money....but it makes sense to START as a taxi driver.

A cook....I mean, do you know how many well paid cooks there are? Now, it does take time to go from a guy that heats up packaged stuff in the back to an ACTUAL cook, but there are a ton of places you can go with that skill.....if you develop the skill.

Hairdressers may start at that wage, but as soon as they have their clientele, they're going to rent their own spot. When they have overflow they bring in normal, they get the shop and rent the chairs. It's the most natural progression to move from employee to owner out there.

I took my SS statement the other day. It was nice to look at. My first year of working legally I made a whopping $393. Yet, I remember feeling so rich from it. It blew my $1 a week allowance so far out that I couldn't wait to do it again, and it was way more consistent than babysitting or farm labor had been. Everyday, run around and help this tennis instructor with some classes put on for kids. He himself was a teacher running a side hustle that was inexpensive yet a popular program for kids in the summer mornings. It was minimum wage. It was not a difficult job. Push comes to shove he wouldn't have needed me, but having me fetch everything allowed him to teach. That job and his referral got me a job at the grocery store. Again...not a living wage, but it was yet another step up for me. Further, the following summer he wanted to know if I'd come back, and I could also get more hours taking care of the lawn at some rentals he'd bought. I hope I thanked him, but I already had the better job at the grocery store.

Minimum wage sucked - but I got better
Teacher pay in SD had ranked dead last in the nation for over a decade then - but he had tennis and rentals on the side that wouldn't pay for a full wage, but complemented his salary. Thinking back, many of the teachers had side hustles...some which grew into full on businesses....where they left their lower paying teaching job.

Learn one thing today. The job I do today is not the job I will be doing 20 years from now. Don't say it with fear of automation, simply accept it and figure out your path forward.

All the wages I mentioned for the jobs are MEDIAN wages for those occupations. Not starting wages. I can post dozens of other jobs that have MEDIAN wages of less than $15 an hour. Common everyday jobs.

You can claim that no one should really be a hair dresser, taxi driver, a cook or something else for more than a few months but that is not how reality works. And when you fight reality, you lose.

Regarding your inflation from the 1930s to today argument, that is absurd. First of all rent is not part of the inflation statistics. By that logic, we might as well index the minimum wage to the 1700s and claim that workers need to be quiet because they have the same purchasing power as 250 years ago. Society and the economy changes. Simply indexing minimum wage to inflation for eternity leads to extreme inequality, social despair and poverty. Like a third world society.

Last edited by PCALMike; Today at 02:50 AM..
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