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Old 08-05-2019, 02:41 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,347 posts, read 545,450 times
Reputation: 1225

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
Stop it.

If Trump didn't pay his taxes, the IRS would know about it.
The issue is Ďtax sheltersí and maneuvering Ďlossesí so he didnít have to pay taxes (in the past) and what tactics he may be utilizing now as well as any potential conflicts of interest in business a tax return could potentially reveal.
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Old 08-05-2019, 02:56 PM
 
1,180 posts, read 538,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
The issue is Ďtax sheltersí and maneuvering Ďlossesí so he didnít have to pay taxes (in the past) and what tactics he may be utilizing now as well as any potential conflicts of interest in business a tax return could potentially reveal.
I think the IRS is more capable than anyone in the general population to evaluate any of those things, if they exist, to determine if they are legal tax planning strategies or illegal tax shelters.

As for business conflicts of interest, what exactly do you expect to see in a tax return? The names of lender, customers, vendors? What conflicts can you expect to expose?
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:09 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,347 posts, read 545,450 times
Reputation: 1225
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiteLiving View Post
I think the IRS is more capable than anyone in the general population to evaluate any of those things, if they exist, to determine if they are legal tax planning strategies or illegal tax shelters.

As for business conflicts of interest, what exactly do you expect to see in a tax return? The names of lender, customers, vendors? What conflicts can you expect to expose?
Itís all outlined in detail by House Democrats who wish to force the issue of exposing Trumpís tax returns from 2013 - 2018. Tax shelters and his $1 billion in losses (going back awhile) are already well known - as is the fact he didnít pay taxes for nine years, but thatís not the issue.

As far as the IRS, itís an interesting point in re: Ďtrustí on how well the IRS performs audits on sitting presidents.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:18 PM
 
1,180 posts, read 538,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Itís all outlined in detail by House Democrats who wish to force the issue of exposing Trumpís tax returns from 2013 - 2018. Tax shelters and his $1 billion in losses (going back awhile) are already well known - as is the fact he didnít pay taxes for nine years, but thatís not the issue.

As far as the IRS, itís an interesting point in re: Ďtrustí on how well the IRS performs audits on sitting presidents.
Yes, the dems are so concerned about how well the IRS is doing its job they're considering getting Trump's NY information because they can't get his federal returns. So much for the purpose being to monitor how the IRS is auditing the president.

Or better yet, they want to look at the returns to see if additional legislation is necessary. Nice that they want to craft laws around one individual's tax returns.

As for how you perceive the IRS's efforts in auditing a sitting president, he's only been president for 2 years. The IRS has been auditing his returns for what, 20 - 25 years.

Or maybe you just view the entire agency as incompetent and they let everyone off Scot free in their audits.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
26,687 posts, read 63,284,972 times
Reputation: 30958
I was told this in 1990 local police department held a seminar on how to deal with panhandlers. They were popping up everywhere. The consultant they had presenting said a good panhandler in a good location with some rented kids to stand with them can make $70K a year tax fee after expenses (beat up clothing and kid rental). Some of them have nice cars, live in a decent apartment, drive out to their site, muss up their hair and put on Salvation army clothing and hold up a Veteran sign. She said the people who are truly impacted by some personal disaster are rarely out there panhandling. At least not along the freeway exits and entrances (which is where they apparently make the big money), those are professionals.

I talked with some of them in LA long ago. They said they did not make that much, but in a good year, they might get to $50K. Most really did not have a permanent pace to live. Two of them said they loved the lifestyle and would not give it up. No responsibilities or obligations. No need to know what time it is - ever. One guy said each morning he asks himself "What will I do today? and answers "Whatever the F. I feel like doing" He then asked me if I ever get to do that? My answer was no.

There is a certain appeal to the lifestyle. It is not for me. Probably not for most people, but it certainly could have some major appeal.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:29 PM
 
5,353 posts, read 1,333,564 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_Native View Post
Because panhandlers know there's a certain segment of society who are idiots and will give the panhandlers money.
I have come to the conclusion that Americans are suckers. Just look at all those commercials on cable all the time about abused animals and disfigured kids....I get calls all the time for the police and fireman's fund? What even is that? Don't I pay for them through my tax dollars? William Devane tells me I need to buy gold. A simple search on google shows that that firm is a scammer. Back to my initial comment. Americans are suckers.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:32 PM
 
5,353 posts, read 1,333,564 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
Not only that, but you can come to work under the influence of whatever your drug of choice is, there are no random blood or urine tests, you aren't likely to ruin your back doing manual labor, and you don't have to deal with a Manager, let alone having to do "annual reviews" or other nonsense. You can also tell your customers to "fuggoff" if they give you any lip, try doing that when you work at Home Depot.

Yesterday, a guy with a mournful face came past my car with the standard handwritten "Please help, I'm homeless and very hungry" sign. I recognized him as the same Barry Manilow-looking guy who's been selling flowers on every southwest side intersection for the last twenty years - although he did look a little more down on his luck than when he was selling roses. The change in demeanor is amazing if you watch these guys, they walk "normally" (with vigor) on the side of the road when the light is green - but when the light turns red and the traffic stops, they hunch over their shoulders, stare at the ground, and shuffle slowly between the lines of cars, designed to evoke pity in the minds of the potential givers. Hey, if it makes the people who fall for this stuff happy by giving them money, God Bless, but I'm sure not in their camp.

Another story, by buddy was parked in a lot for some reason, and a guy with one leg was walking with a crutch and a sign, and making pretty good coin. After a while, the guy retreated to a far corner of the same lot as my buddy, put on a prosthetic leg, and proceeded to climb onto a nice mountain bike. My buddy drove over and complimented him on his sales technique, and gave him a buck for talking to him. The guy was all bright-eyed and bushy tailed as he agreed with my buddy that he had a pretty good gig going - nice work if you can get it.
Confirms my theory. Americans are suckers.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:33 PM
 
5,353 posts, read 1,333,564 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
Interesting how we see the world through our own prejudices.

If someone is sitting on his butt all day in a toll booth collecting money, then we think that's OK. If someone is sitting on his butt all day out on a corner collecting money, we think that's terrible. I'm still trying to pinpoint why we feel they're different.

I suppose you could say it's because one is paying taxes and the other isn't, but given how even our current president may not be paying his taxes, how is this different? Or do we not like being scammed? We know we get scammed in hundreds of ways throughout the day, but maybe we feel different because we can control the scammer on this one. Or maybe it's just envy, that someone is being successful at doing something we'd never do (and this makes me wonder at how far a person has to fall before he puts his pride aside and does something distasteful to him to make money).

And more than anything else, in this country we admire a self-made man. Isn't a person who has the gumption to endure bad weather and nasty people to make his money more admirable than someone who sits in tollbooth just collecting money from people for someone else's business? Sure, the guy on the street corner is being deceitful, but so are thousands of upper echelon bank officials who fake opening new accounts to meet their goals and get their bonuses. Is the CEO of a company who cuts back on customer and employee safety to make more money any less despicable?

Just throwing an alternative view out there.
If you can't understand the difference, I am not going to bother trying to explain it.
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Old 08-05-2019, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Washington state
5,496 posts, read 2,800,694 times
Reputation: 16524
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiteLiving View Post
Isn't that what "exploiting the kindness of strangers" means? Someone wants to be kind and you're taking advantage of that predisposition by panhandling from them.
So if I decide to shop at Walmart, I'm being exploited by their low prices to buy their items and give them money for their offshore accounts?

You know, you can take anything anyone chooses to do and say they were exploited for doing it. Look at all the ads on TV. How do you know every time you buy a car, shop at the grocery store, or select something for your home that you're not buying what you buy because in the back of your mind, a commercial has subtly suggested it? Did you decide to buy cereal today? Was it really your choice or were you exploited to buy that certain brand because of a commercial you saw earlier today?

If you think the panhandlers are manipulating people, then you are just as manipulated by all the ads you see and read. We're a consumer society. We don't all get exploited by the same things, but everyone is manipulated constantly, including you. Even religion exploits and manipulates people. But you don't get to have it both ways. You can't say kind people are giving to panhandlers because they're being exploited but then say you make your own choices free and clear with no one influencing you. But if you claim you've never been exploited, then you have to admit that some people can say they've never been exploited either and they choose to give to panhandlers with no influences as well.

Exploitation is in the eye of the beholder.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
If you can't understand the difference, I am not going to bother trying to explain it.
Feel free not to.

I'm still pretty convinced though, that most people are ticked off at panhandlers because they do what those people wished they could do but can't or won't. And it's mainly because panhandlers make the amount of money they do. If a couple of studies came out and said that panhandlers only made say, $5 a day or something like that, no one would care about them.

People are always upset and angry over those who don't conform to society and even worse, who then become successful at what they do. Human nature. Look at all the anger people had in the 60s about that horrible rock and roll. Long hair and electric guitars made money and some people never forgave those misfits for being successful.
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Old 08-05-2019, 04:28 PM
 
1,180 posts, read 538,989 times
Reputation: 1284
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
So if I decide to shop at Walmart, I'm being exploited by their low prices to buy their items and give them money for their offshore accounts?

You know, you can take anything anyone chooses to do and say they were exploited for doing it. Look at all the ads on TV. How do you know every time you buy a car, shop at the grocery store, or select something for your home that you're not buying what you buy because in the back of your mind, a commercial has subtly suggested it? Did you decide to buy cereal today? Was it really your choice or were you exploited to buy that certain brand because of a commercial you saw earlier today?

If you think the panhandlers are manipulating people, then you are just as manipulated by all the ads you see and read. We're a consumer society. We don't all get exploited by the same things, but everyone is manipulated constantly, including you. Even religion exploits and manipulates people. But you don't get to have it both ways. You can't say kind people are giving to panhandlers because they're being exploited but then say you make your own choices free and clear with no one influencing you. But if you claim you've never been exploited, then you have to admit that some people can say they've never been exploited either and they choose to give to panhandlers with no influences as well.

Exploitation is in the eye of the beholder.
You're really hung up on others taxes aren't you? Shame you don't understand any of it except the cliche drivel that's put out to stoke class warfare.

Yes exploitation is in the eye of the beholder I guess. You automatically assumed there was negative connotation to it when it's just a word to describe one benefiting from another. Sorry you took it wrong.
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