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Old 08-13-2019, 01:58 PM
 
4,589 posts, read 2,747,077 times
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Regarding that $18/hour store worker, I don't get the logic. High unemployment but a decent (for retail) wage...sounds like a reason to work hard so you don't join the unemployed!

High minimum wages would suck for someone who doesn't perform. The winners are the people who can justify the higher wage, like the better retail workers. They'll need to work harder though...that staff of four might go down to three, or stay at four because there are fewer stores.

There are other losers of course...if you were 20% higher than MW, when it goes up your buying power drops. Social security and pension recipients don't do well.

As for what MW changes do to living standards, it's hard to say. Some people get more buying power (a tiny percentage of the overall regional payroll, but good for individuals), while others end up with less if the MW causes inflation and/or they get downsized. If there's a big difference in wages across a border, certain types of jobs will gradually migrate to the cheaper side, which has a long set of dynamics to try to understand.
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,462 posts, read 12,652,121 times
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The advantage of a higher minimum wage is a lower percentage of workers enrolled in social safety net programs like EBT. It's nonsense for us to provide food supplements to Walmart workers when the Waltons pull down $4 million a day in net profits.
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Ohio
20,137 posts, read 14,362,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
There are other losers of course...if you were 20% higher than MW, when it goes up your buying power drops. Social security and pension recipients don't do well.
Yes, they do well.

The CPI-W is Monetary Inflation, Demand-pull Inflation, Cost-push Inflation and Wage Inflation all lumped together. The government makes no effort or attempt to distinguish.

When CPI-W increases, COLA increases and Social Security beneficiaries get more money. Some, but not all, pensions are also tied to CPI-W and get increases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
The advantage of a higher minimum wage is a lower percentage of workers enrolled in social safety net programs like EBT.
There's no evidence of that.

Every time the federal minimum wage increases, the federal poverty level increases.

Those workers are out of "poverty" only long enough for government to recalculate the figures which is usually 90 to 180 days, but never more than a year.
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Old 08-13-2019, 05:02 PM
 
6,382 posts, read 6,475,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
agree...>>higher minimum wages cause higher unemployment among that cadre.

Australia is a good example, we spent 6 months doing volunteer building projects, and the 'quality of customer service / knowledge in supply stores was pathetic'. Assistants would blatantly tell you; "I am not helping you find or load your merchandise, I get $18/ hr whether I am playing on the internet, talking with co-workers or helping you. Load your own Gyprock, you bought it... you load it".

In USA you will see a lot more automation to replace jobs, (self ordering, checkout and such).

With regs and benefits it usually costs an employer 2x the wages.
Entry level workers are NOT worth it, they can actually degrade your business success. (Especially if operating equipment or dealing with customers)
Have you tried going to another store with better service? That is how businesses will compete with each other. If they all selling same thing, then the one with better service will get more customers. If only one store around, then someone will realized they can cut into bad service businesses' hold on the market and move in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post


There's no evidence of that.

Every time the federal minimum wage increases, the federal poverty level increases.

Those workers are out of "poverty" only long enough for government to recalculate the figures which is usually 90 to 180 days, but never more than a year.
Our population has also gone up. Illegal immigrants went up overall these past few decades. More politicians been pushing for more welfare to get more votes, and setting it up so more people can find loopholes and exploit.

If we did away with MW altogether, and let corporations pay whatever they want will poverty and welfare dependence decrease? If we left the MW as is will poverty levels improve?
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:25 PM
 
1,365 posts, read 710,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
... There are other losers of course...if you were 20% higher than MW, when it goes up your buying power drops. Social security and pension recipients don't do well.

As for what MW changes do to living standards, it's hard to say. Some people get more buying power (a tiny percentage of the overall regional payroll, but good for individuals), while others end up with less if the MW causes inflation and/or they get downsized. If there's a big difference in wages across a border, certain types of jobs will gradually migrate to the cheaper side, which has a long set of dynamics to try to understand.
Mhays25, when the minimum wage rate's increased, employers generally increase at least all of their lower and lesser middle-wage rates immediately. A minimum wage increase effects do eventually creep up to even higher wage rates, but higher rate's increases are almost imperceivable.

[Due to an increase of the minimum rate, employers usually enact their enterprise's pay increases many months prior to the legally required date. The amounts and proportional increases differ for each different rate. The extents of increases are generally greater for greater rates. But there's an inverse relationship of the difference between the minimum and the job's rate, and the proportional increase of the job's rate. Lower rates are proportionally increased more, and higher rates are proportionally increased less.]

Mircea and I were discussing an example of the $7.25 minimum being increased to $8.55/Hr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Mircea, ... You're contending that an employer would follow the letter of the law and increase only prior wage rates that were below $8.55/Hr?

You don't see a problem with not increasing any other wage rates?
An employer will have no additional problems retaining employees those employees that did not receive raises when those below the minimum received them? That employer will not experience any recruiting problems when attempting to recruit additional or replacement employees for the same job descriptions at the same wage rates existing prior to the minimum's increase?

If that's the practices you're familiar with, they differ greatly from any USA city or suburban area that I'm familiar with.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:44 PM
 
1,365 posts, read 710,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
The advantage of a higher minimum wage is a lower percentage of workers enrolled in social safety net programs like EBT. It's nonsense for us to provide food supplements to Walmart workers when the Waltons pull down $4 million a day in net profits.
Larry Caldwell, yes; a minimum wage rate's purpose is to reduce poverty among the working-poor. Its effectiveness is dependent upon its purchasing power.

We all do better when we all do better. To the extent that any of us suffer due to poverty, it's of some detriment to our entire economy.
Walmart's sales volumes are very sensitive to the financial condition of the lower and lesser middle-income families that are their customers. They, who employ such a large proportion of lower and lesser middle-wage rate employees, are also great net beneficiaries of the federal minimum-wage rate's contribution to our nation's economy.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:04 PM
 
1,365 posts, read 710,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
agree...>>higher minimum wages cause higher unemployment among that cadre. ... In USA you will see a lot more automation to replace jobs, (self ordering, checkout and such). ...
StealthRabbit, you continue to post this line in opposition to the minimum wage rate.
Automation has been, and I expect it to continue being of net economic benefit.

To the extent that increasing the minimum wage accelerates the adoption of automated improvements, that's an additional economic benefit due to the increase of the minimum wage rate.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:45 PM
 
1,365 posts, read 710,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
... More politicians been pushing for more welfare to get more votes, and setting it up so more people can find loopholes and exploit.

If we did away with MW altogether, and let corporations pay whatever they want will poverty and welfare dependence decrease? If we left the MW as is, will poverty levels improve?
NJ Brazen, I suppose your complaint is the cost of public assistance.

You advocate eliminating or continue reducing the minimum wage rate's purchasing power. That purchasing power reduces the incidences and extents of poverty among the working poor and their dependents.
Your prescription is increasing the severity of the illness you claim to be remedying.

Eliminating the minimum wage rate or continuing to permit the loss of its purchasing power is net detrimental to our economy and it particularly increases poverty among our working poor.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:22 PM
 
Location: On the road
6,129 posts, read 2,975,919 times
Reputation: 11807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
The advantage of a higher minimum wage is a lower percentage of workers enrolled in social safety net programs like EBT. It's nonsense for us to provide food supplements to Walmart workers when the Waltons pull down $4 million a day in net profits.
If wages of low-end workers is a function of profitability, would you be okay with their wages going down if the company is losing money or does it just work in one direction where a company should be raising wages during times of profitability but keeping them the same when revenue is less than expenses ?
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Old Yesterday, 12:55 AM
 
1,365 posts, read 710,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
If wages of low-end workers is a function of profitability, would you be okay with their wages going down if the company is losing money or does it just work in one direction where a company should be raising wages during times of profitability but keeping them the same when revenue is less than expenses ?
Lieqiang, are we negotiating?
Would it be OK if the company pays the workers deductible for their car damage if the worker can't afford it? How about paying their kids college tuition or braces? If a worker can't make his alimony or child support payments, the company will cover it?
What does "low-end workers is a function of profitability" mean? String English words together isn't necessarily communicating in English if the 'string" has no meaning.

Employers are required to pay no less than the minimum wage. If they believe their cleaning ladies and janitors are overpriced, dismiss them. Employers can try to retain their sales staff after they ask them to mop the floors and clean the toilets, or the employers could do it themselves.
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