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Old Yesterday, 07:31 PM
 
1,853 posts, read 624,625 times
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After house prices crashed, they reverted back to the historical trendline, which is 3x local incomes.

JP's Real Estate Charts: Inflation-adjusted housing prices

People think 2000-2006 or 2010-now is how housing markets are "supposed" to work and the 2009 prices were a bargain. In reality the 2009 prices were historically normal and real estate has mostly been overpriced since 2000.

It's really sad that we've lost sight of this. Your primary residence should be seen as a cost to be minimized, so the old way was better in that respect.
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Old Yesterday, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
16,626 posts, read 16,770,516 times
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The nightmarish horrors of the last "great recession", gives me the feeling that "normal", as in occasional economic-downturns, are to be avoided at all costs, from here on out.

Housing starts to aggressively correct, there "needs" to be "measures", put in place to stop that.
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Old Yesterday, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Olympus Mons, Mars
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I find this laughable as well.. 2007 was the peak of the greatest Real Estate bubble of all time and it's widely acknowledged as so but now that we're back at those same crazy bubble valuations people and the news media refer to it as a "recovery".. if it was a bubble then, it's the same bubble now.. nothing has fundamentally changed.
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Old Yesterday, 11:16 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,884 posts, read 40,376,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
After house prices crashed, they reverted back to the historical trendline, which is 3x local incomes.

...
It's really sad that we've lost sight of this. Your primary residence should be seen as a cost to be minimized, so the old way was better in that respect.
Agreed... sell today and you still need to find a place to lay your head tomorrow.

High valuations are good for realtors and the tax man (except in CA with Prop 13).. BTW. Equity that fled CA destroyed sustainable housing in the 10 'other' western states as that inflow displaced millions of families (priced / taxed out).

The rest of us.. forced to sell due to taxes, or find another income source.
My property taxes have increased 20x from their 'affordable' range.

Same house, just more worn out. Next yr will be $45 / day in property taxes alone (for a simple home that cost < $100k to build)
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Old Today, 02:44 AM
 
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Our area has not been 3x local incomes in decades , maybe even in my lifetime and I am retired today ....we have historically run closer to at least 5 here in queens ny ..manhattan runs higher.

3x local incomes gets you a studio apartment in a seedy part of town unfit for a family ,only a single

Real estate is so highly localized you can’t go by anything that is ever showing some national statistic .

We had a second home in pa that still has not reached the value it was in 2007
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Old Today, 02:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
Our area has never been 3x local incomes in decades ....we have historically run closer to at least 5 here in queens ny ..manhattan runs higher
There are outliers such as NYC and coastal California, but 3x was the norm in most places pre-2000.
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Old Today, 02:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
There are outliers such as NYC and coastal California, but 3x was the norm in most places pre-2000.
3 to 4x was an average but it is heavily dependent on interest rates ...when rates are higher or lower the ratio changes..

Only 16 out of the 100 most populated areas are under 2.6 today....

All that counts is what the area you want to buy in is seeing and historically at .

Like everything pertaining to lifestyle , median or average incomes mean diddly ... you need to go by your own local area and what it takes to live the life you want ....

https://listwithclever.com/real-esta...torical-study/

Last edited by mathjak107; Today at 03:02 AM..
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Old Today, 04:51 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,789 posts, read 62,855,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
Our area has not been 3x local incomes in decades...
More of this? I know for a fact this bit of common knowledge (about the world beyond NY Metro)
has also been shared with you on several occasions. You really shouldn't need to be reminded with every thread.
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Old Today, 04:56 AM
 
72,886 posts, read 72,721,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
More of this? I know for a fact this bit of common knowledge (about the world beyond NY Metro)
has also been shared with you on several occasions. You really shouldn't need to be reminded with every thread.
It isn’t just about New York so you may want to start educating yourself about the subject if you want to be mr rational . You can’t be rational when you are so hell bent on calling out my posts all the time rather than looking at facts first .

There are loads of cities across the country with millions and millions of people that don’t conform and rarely have conformed to any average when it comes to housing and incomes .

In fact New York is towards the bottom of the list .

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/...-whack/561404/

comments and stats that are made as general comments that supposedly fit all or even most Can be quite meaningless .....

62% of jobs don’t support a middle class lifestyle,where people live . That is because housing and incomes don’t line up ..80% of the population are in cities where life and housing can be more expensive then more rural.
...national averages don’t mean a thing to most people since most are not average or fit in those areas considered average

Last edited by mathjak107; Today at 05:24 AM..
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Old Today, 05:42 AM
Status: "Goodbye Portland, Hello Las Vegas!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Henderson, NV
5,876 posts, read 6,063,966 times
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Yeah sorry but lol @ a house being 3x your income average. That would be like $100-150K houses in tons of markets and that ain’t happening. Especially not when first time home buyers only need to put down 3% and there’s a ton of generational wealth.

Some people need to climb out of their bubble because it’s killing their understanding of the local housing market. The Vegas forum has this issue, people whining that the average wage earner can’t afford a house therefore it’s overpriced. Maybe if it was somewhere in the Midwest, ok, but take a world class city with world class dining and entertainment and great weather, next to a state with horribly overpriced real estate, and it doesn’t matter at all what the average wage is there, has nothing to do with housing prices especially at the high end. Two of my relatives have retirement money from a more expensive state, a pension from there too, another friend bought a million dollar house and works remotely / online business, I also don’t care or rely on the local economy, and plenty of retirees think houses are cheap just like I do because they are cheap by any West Coast standard.

I feel sorry for the locals who find the houses expensive but there’s a bigger world out there with a lot more money than they realize and the simple reality is how cheap or expensive a house is doesn’t depend on the local economy but the global economy. As long as people come from places where the market is far more expensive, than the area will be seen as cheap to enough people to lift housing prices. It’s irrelevant that $500K is a lot to an employee on the Strip. It’s entirely relevant that $500K is a bargain for anyone coming from CA right next door. Maybe it matters to young people that the local economy can’t support that house, but it sure doesn’t matter to middle aged and older people who are selling a much more expensive house and may be able to pay cash for a house in a cheaper area and may have enough passive income sources elsewhere to shrug off the local economy.
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