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Old Yesterday, 06:05 AM
 
884 posts, read 243,373 times
Reputation: 2303

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Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post
I am an Open Borders guy.
Let all new immigrants meet the same restrictions that my ancestors did when they got off the boat.
Fair for my ancestors, fair for them.
Naive and delusional thinking:
1) Your ancestors committed a genocide of according to some calculation between 50 and 100 million native population. This land was not empty
2) Your ancestors did not have a welfare system in place and that is mostly why immigrants are coming- a safety net for them already established- no need to work that hard if they don’t want to
Everybody blames the white man- but name a well run country run by non- whites or non asian
Look no further than South Africa- and they had an established by white tradition system of governance
Just watch a few videos from UK- London, Germany, etc- they already did what you want to do- huge regrets and maybe a civil unrest looming- they had open borders- hard to close them now- some of their enemies are inside of their borders.
We should learn from their mistakes.

Last edited by Nik4me; Yesterday at 06:16 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 06:21 AM
 
884 posts, read 243,373 times
Reputation: 2303
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
I read a survey of factory owners (in the WSJ, I think) that said about 50% of job applicants couldn't pass a substance test. Can you imagine that many people are too stupid to clean up for a couple of weeks?

Then there's the terrible K-12 education that the bottom 50% of us get, graduating high school unable to read and write English or do basic math or think critically. Taught by liberals (90% of K-12 teachers are Democrats), indoctrinated by left wing Hollywood to hate and despise businesses and the mostly white men that run them.

The population has gotten stupider, lazier, more self-centered than ever before in our history. Many of us don't even want to bother with raising children. We have no choice but to rely on immigrant labor to keep our country going.

They're going to come here, legally or not. We need to get the process under control like with Ellis Island. Take the best of the best, require that they become American and learn English, and they will be fine.
I agree with you: we need to work on our own population - by removing stupid disability regulations, improving schools by actually spending money on technology, research on how better to teach kids and not on school bureaucrats!
Totally revamp a special education!
and add some fresh blood, diversity- but orderly, legally, responsibly, the young, the talented and promising
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Old Yesterday, 06:29 AM
 
884 posts, read 243,373 times
Reputation: 2303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
Specifically electricians. That's something I wont/cant do and I would like an artificially increased surplus in order to drive down my costs.
I said it before and say it again: we should stop promoting college as a pre- requisite to a life success.
Doing that promotes rising costs of colleges, but I doubt everyone could benefit- some people are just not cut out for academics- which is not bad at all+ the country needs electricians, plumbers, HVAC specialists, mechanics!
College is not the answer! A lot of them waiting tables after their graduation- making a decent living if not for college loans.
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Old Yesterday, 07:07 AM
 
3,814 posts, read 3,558,490 times
Reputation: 9095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me View Post
I agree with you: we need to work on our own population - by removing stupid disability regulations, improving schools by actually spending money on technology, research on how better to teach kids and not on school bureaucrats!
Totally revamp a special education!
and add some fresh blood, diversity- but orderly, legally, responsibly, the young, the talented and promising
No research needed. Just go back to tried and true methods: require high standards and tolerate no misbehavior.
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Old Yesterday, 08:01 AM
 
2,586 posts, read 1,490,845 times
Reputation: 5425
Consumer driven economies need population growth.

We do not have enough population growth.

We either need immigrants or higher birth rates. Keep in mind that birth rates take decades to impact the economy.

If we want higher birth rates something needs to be done about extra financial burdens of younger families. Much of the problem stems from child care being so expensive, housing costs having risen in the job centers so much and the fact that people are getting married later, having kids later and dealing with more fertility issues. Health care costs are also a major issue. Can't address any of that because "Socialism!" and we are already deficit spending 1T+ on nothing important so even if we did want to do something it becomes next to impossible because of current spending.

Immigration is a hot topic. Personally I don't have a problem with it and would like to see the legal methods (which are not producing nearly enough immigrants) adjusted and made easier so people could come here legally. I'm also in favor of granting amnesty to those here which have not committed any violent crimes (immediately deporting those that do). I would then heavily fine business for using illegal labor and force everify over a period of time, all of which reduces the need and ability to come here illegally.

The bottom line is we are not growing our population which is terrible in a capitalistic, consumer driven economy.

There is irony here. The people against immigration, in general are the die hard free market folks. The irony is that by limiting immigration you are creating a deflation mess. Social safety nets will have to expand. You are essentially creating the problem which you dread so much, socialism!, all because you are afraid of some brown people that even though poor, commit crime at a similar rate to whites. Most of you forget your ancestors came over here poor and some jerk off probably looked at them in the ghettos of the day and said something like "pigs breeding" and raised their nose in disgust.

Sad. You are creating the framework which will force what you despise the most.

Last edited by aridon; Yesterday at 08:14 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
7,105 posts, read 6,737,591 times
Reputation: 7703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
The Migration Policy Institute is part of the Carnegie Endowment, which is liberal.

Think tanks are hired to produce research that supports a certain political cause, in this case liberal immigration policy. That's all that needs to be said.
The Wharton Penn Budget Model is not liberal. Stop trying to cast a political light on an economics issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
Oh sure...we need them to do menial work. Uh-huh.

But much of what's coming here illegally isn't doing any work at all. We taxpayers are supporting them. That's how these agricultural entities can get away paying them next to nothing - welfare is subsidizing their living expenses.

What part of "illegal" do these proponents not understand?? Soros, the UN, and the globalists wish to bring these people into white countries to replace and change the culture. It's all about control. Such attempts never end well. One need only look at the EU countries to see the problems that have resulted, and the future of the USA if we don't wise up to this.

Don't be so quick to be!ieve everything you read.
The economists agree that it needs to be legal immigration. Our process for receiving immigrants legally is broken. We need to make it much easier for people to be here legally so they don’t come illegally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9 View Post
And we have more than 300 million of them. Additional people make us poorer. It means splitting up the same resources among more people.
This is exactly how economies DO NOT work. If your thought process was correct, GDP would be exactly the same as it was 50 years ago. More people is one of the key driving factors for more economic growth.

Why is our GDP higher than other countries with more resources?

You should take an economics class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9 View Post
You can't be serious. There's no way to argue that the US needs *any* immigrants. If the US needed more workers, we would produce them ourselves. The market has spoken.
Ummm no. The market doesn’t magically produce more people. Japan is a great example of this.
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Old Yesterday, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
7,825 posts, read 16,302,054 times
Reputation: 7985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit View Post
According to OAN, we so far have spent almost $200 billion on ILLEGAL aliens. What sane nation burns up resources like that? NONE, that's who.
For those not familiar with OAN, it's not really a news channel but a propaganda channel iffy on facts that exists to validate the viewpoints of the subset of Americans that think Fox News has been taken over by left wing whackaloon disloyal Americans. I'd put them about at the same quality level as CCTV, but at least CCTV is capable of the occasional surprisingly good long format journalism when allowed to move beyond the 'Our Deal Leader' spiel

(I end up watching bits and pieces of OAN because they rebroadcast on sister network AWE, and I've got my DVR set to pick up some AWE travel shows like 'Distant Shores' and the one with the South African trustafarians, so the DVR picks up the first two minutes of so of OAN's 'news' when the feed is slightly off sync with clock time)
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Old Yesterday, 09:37 AM
 
8,566 posts, read 2,570,985 times
Reputation: 5938
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
I love it when people cut off the rest of the quote. Yes, I do it too, it's fun to twist and turn.

A optimally functioning market requires an optimally tuned legal infrastructure. Where that is lacking, mafia fills the gaps.

The US legal structure with respect to immigration is in tatters.

The same for trade. And also health care while we're at it.

The market has spoken? You can't be serious.

That the market would speak.

Alas!
That was completely incoherent.
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Old Yesterday, 09:40 AM
 
8,566 posts, read 2,570,985 times
Reputation: 5938
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1insider View Post
And there it is, the real reason for the resistance to immigration.
And it's a damn good reason. One that can't be argued against. Although, ultimately, immigration is a disaster or the human race as a hole.

The notion of a right to immigrate is a negation of the concept of property. If your morality holds that the productive cannot keep what they produce -- and that is the morality of immigration -- you will gradually destroy production.
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Old Yesterday, 09:44 AM
 
8,566 posts, read 2,570,985 times
Reputation: 5938
Quote:
Originally Posted by aridon View Post
Consumer driven economies need population growth.

We do not have enough population growth.

We either need immigrants or higher birth rates. Keep in mind that birth rates take decades to impact the economy.
"Economies" don't need anything. Nations need things. People need things. And if the nation needed or wanted population growth, we would do it ourselves. And no one wants a "consumer driven" economy, anyway. You're positing goals that have no value to begin with.
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