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Old Yesterday, 07:55 AM
 
6,604 posts, read 4,963,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homelessinseattle View Post
You have to be kidding. So some journalists try to bolt on a bumper and find it something that requires a bit of practice. Then they conclude the workers are worth whatever they earn? I am sorry but bolting on a bumper is a low skill task. People doing that work are going to compete with others with no skills.
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Old Yesterday, 07:58 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
29,298 posts, read 63,677,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
People seem to be confused about the strike. It is not about wages.
The main issue is the use of temporary workers with no means to move up or become employees of the company.
The main issue (and beyond the walls of GM) is the availability of so many willing to be used
as temporary workers and largely satisfied to accept no means to move up or become (more)...
because that is still as good as or even better than they can do anywhere else.
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Old Yesterday, 11:41 AM
 
886 posts, read 265,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
You have to be kidding. So some journalists try to bolt on a bumper and find it something that requires a bit of practice. Then they conclude the workers are worth whatever they earn? I am sorry but bolting on a bumper is a low skill task. People doing that work are going to compete with others with no skills.
Most manufacturing jobs may be deemed "Low skill" (repetitive and fairly easy to learn), but that doesn't mean they are "easy to do", they put a lot of wear and tear on your body, require a lot of physical exertion, occur in places that are dirty, uncomfortable, and not well-climatized, and being repetitive, can be "mind numbing". It's not all about whether a job requires the ability to think at a higher level, much of it depends on how miserable it is to do that job on a daily basis. I've had both kinds of positions, and stuck with the one that was interesting and mentally challenging vs. "easy" and laborious for the bulk of my career. My back is still screwed up from moving pianos and performing construction when young, though.

The folks striking at GM "should" be directing most of their anger at the older, "Tier 1" workers who sold out the younger guys so they could finish out their careers without taking a hit when automakers threatened to move production out of the country. The whole idea of a Union should be "brotherhood" and sticking together, but they allowed themselves to be "divided and conquered" by the automakers, who had the long-game in mind. We (auto consumers) are also to blame, we saw imported, "lower cost" vehicles as saving us money, when they should have had a tariff applied to them to make up for the lost taxes a domestically-produced vehicle brought in. Finally, GM itself is to blame for turning out poorly-designed / manufactured vehicles year after year (the Ford Pinto and Chevrolet Vega were Detroit's answer to the Corolla and Civic - how did that work out?). GM should have been allowed to go through a "real" bankruptcy in 2008, not the silliness that occurred. Their products continue to get worse and less attractive in the U.S., and are more foreign than domestic now IMHO, I don't even look at them as an alternative when shopping for new cars.

So, there's plenty of blame to go around. America has been a nation in decline for forty years now, it's just that our military and economic might has skewed our view of that. The world was in ruins after WWII, and the U.S, having been relatively un-touched physically, had a huge advantage over the rest of the world in manufacturing. Not so much today. We wanted strong OSHA, EPA, and Labor rules, and we got them - and now we're much less competitive when it comes to building cars, it's much easier for automakers to simply build them over the border in Mexico. But everyone (except Ross Perot) felt NAFTA was a "good" thing. Bottom line, I don't have a solution to his problem, but I sure can rant about it, and I feel badly for the guys out there on the line. But not enough to buy a new Blazer.
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Old Yesterday, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
2,954 posts, read 1,482,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
You have to be kidding. So some journalists try to bolt on a bumper and find it something that requires a bit of practice. Then they conclude the workers are worth whatever they earn? I am sorry but bolting on a bumper is a low skill task. People doing that work are going to compete with others with no skills.
yeah and emptying trash cans is also "low" skilled. does not automatically mean easy. so by your definition only those who have some type of litmus test should be paid well??

the workers have a skill, it's called automotive assembly and as the article pointed out, not every one can or should do it.
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Old Yesterday, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
2,954 posts, read 1,482,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
So it is about the Union trying to reassert control?
why shouldn't they have some control? they have to do the work.
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Old Yesterday, 02:16 PM
 
6,604 posts, read 4,963,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post
yeah and emptying trash cans is also "low" skilled. does not automatically mean easy. ....
I would agree low skilled jobs are often nasty and unpleasant and can require hard work. Sadly there is a great oversupply of unskilled workers not only in the US but world wide. The writing is on the wall. Get an education, get skills or face declining opportunities.

There are plenty of opportunities. Twelve years of education covers a lot and is mandatory. The vast majority of kids blow that opportunity. Even without much of an education there are lots of opportunities to gain skill in highly paid trade jobs. Skilled plumbers, carpenters, electricians can make really good money. I know quite a few people working in the trades and they cannot get helpers or apprentices that will stay off drugs, show up to work and try to learn.
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Old Yesterday, 02:26 PM
 
6,604 posts, read 4,963,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
.....

America has been a nation in decline for forty years now......
Nonsense. America continues to advance. Those with education and skills are doing better than ever. For most college level jobs unemployment has been around 3% for a great many years. Over 60 million Americans are living in households with incomes over 6 figures and that number has been growing rapidly.

Society and the workplace have been changing that is a fact. It is also a fact that those at the bottom without skills and without much education are sinking. A few million illegal aliens have not helped but the changes are bigger than that. Manufacturing is becoming more automated, more high tech. Retailing is changing and jobs vanishing at a rapid rate. Agriculture and ranching are almost entirely changed with highly efficient operations. Those looking for a return to the way things used to be are going to be disappointed.
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Old Yesterday, 02:34 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
29,298 posts, read 63,677,629 times
Reputation: 33764
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
The writing is on the wall. Get an education, get skills or face declining opportunities.
The opportunities have already done a lot of declining; especially with good wages & benefits.
That ship has sailed and however many there are now there will be fewer and fewer into the future.

Quote:
Sadly there is a great oversupply of unskilled workers not only in the US but world wide.
If the consensus to do something about that oversupply ever develops we'll have a good chance.
Think it might?
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Old Yesterday, 03:12 PM
 
357 posts, read 162,266 times
Reputation: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
You have to be kidding. So some journalists try to bolt on a bumper and find it something that requires a bit of practice. Then they conclude the workers are worth whatever they earn? I am sorry but bolting on a bumper is a low skill task. People doing that work are going to compete with others with no skills.
I bolted transformers on to a wood pole. Therefore I was low skilled replaceable labor? I bet you wouldn't make a day doing manual labor on an assembly line. Keep up the good work berating working class people.
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Old Yesterday, 03:50 PM
 
6,604 posts, read 4,963,022 times
Reputation: 13867
Quote:
Originally Posted by homelessinseattle View Post
I bolted transformers on to a wood pole. Therefore I was low skilled replaceable labor? I bet you wouldn't make a day doing manual labor on an assembly line. Keep up the good work berating working class people.
It is not a matter of "berating". Nor does it mean low skilled jobs are easy. Many require lots of hard work in unpleasant circumstances. That does not change reality. In the US and throughout the world there are plenty of people with low skills who are competing for low paid jobs. Many of those low paid jobs are becoming scarce. The oversupply is not going to go away. Meanwhile, companies are struggling to find employees with skills, knowledge, experience.
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