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Old 11-11-2019, 06:38 PM
 
987 posts, read 295,611 times
Reputation: 3598

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWFL_Native View Post
I think you’re missing the point as it’s a Yoga Berra like comment. Be definition 50% of the population has an IQ that falls below the median. The commenter said Avergage thus he was implying that was a skewness biased towards a higher value or a few very smart people were bringing the average up above the median. I’m not so sure that is the case.
Like fifty percent of doctors being in the bottom half of their graduating class?
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:20 PM
 
35 posts, read 3,618 times
Reputation: 57
Just like a house, a big screen tv, cell phone people are buying more product than they need because of credit. That's why they talk about 'the payment' or what is 'the number' you would be happy with. It's to disguise the actual cost.


Throw in those who feel entitle to or desire all the latest bells and whistles like their an aficionado. People buy features not cars anymore. Throw in financial ignorance or high tolerance for financial risk of course most are underwater on their cars.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:39 PM
 
158 posts, read 15,676 times
Reputation: 71
There is an article in today WSJ,of folks who have upside down auto loans.
another article on farmers borrowing not from bank but althernative financing paying higher interest rate,the check they receive from selling their crops are signed over to their lenders.
Reminds me of those regional airlines,the cc proceeds from customers buying plane tickets are turned over to the leasing companies first,they struggle to pay their employees,buy fuels and pay mchanics and other suppliers
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:46 AM
 
1,418 posts, read 511,048 times
Reputation: 4526
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
Some 50% of people have below-average IQs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWFL_Native View Post
Average or Median?


IQ is a Gaussian, or normal distribution.
When plotted it appears as a bell-shaped curve.
In such a distribution the median = the mean = the mode.

So it doesn't matter.
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:18 AM
 
12,999 posts, read 10,317,152 times
Reputation: 9978
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
75k = 2 years of driving for me.
In order to make this work, you basically have to treat vehicle servicing and replacement as part of the cost of driving in addition to gas. Allocate 10 - 20 cents per mile towards buying a new car, a few cents per mile for servicing, and the ordinary cost of fuel, and the numbers should roughly work out for most non-luxury vehicles .
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Florida
11,513 posts, read 5,344,289 times
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After reading all these posts I have to wonder why so many people are down on car leases. If you can get a low monthly payment with little to nothing down what is so wrong with that? For me it made sense as I don't put a lot of miles on my cars, I take good care of them and I never have to worry about anything going wrong with them. As a widow this made sense to me.

However my lease was up around the same time as my mom passed so I decided to drive her paid off 2002 Chrysler Concord Limited for a while to save some money for a down payment on a pre-owned car. Since the car only had 68K miles, I figured it would be a good idea. I've been driving the car for 2 months now and so far I've had to put $2K into the damn thing. After my stepfather died, my mom just couldn't afford to do routine maintenance on the car.

I could have put that $2K into buying a good pre-owned car or just got another lease. I'm kicking myself for not doing that. But now that I've got $2K invested into this car I feel like I have to keep fixing it. Hopefully after all the work that I've had put into it, it will last me a least a year or two especially since I bought impact resistant windows for my house and those payments are the same as my lease was for the next three years.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:25 AM
 
2,718 posts, read 1,562,923 times
Reputation: 5747
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiluvr1228 View Post
After reading all these posts I have to wonder why so many people are down on car leases. If you can get a low monthly payment with little to nothing down what is so wrong with that? For me it made sense as I don't put a lot of miles on my cars, I take good care of them and I never have to worry about anything going wrong with them. As a widow this made sense to me.
Well in the case of someone that drives few miles (10k or so) and takes care of their vehicles, you would be much better off buying something new and riding it until the wheels fall off (would take you a decade and a half based on that usage to wear it out).

In the case of a lease, you will always have a payment. That is the problem. Where as when you purchase you would have many years without any payment as you ride the sweet spot of the depreciation curve to tons of savings.

People also tend to use leases to buy vehicles they can't afford in the first place. Most leases require a down payment for the low advertised prices. If you don't do the down payment, then the lease increases substantially, getting all the closer to the cost of buying.

https://www.wpbhyundai.com/specials/lease.htm

15209 to buy
$85 a month lease 3k down

269 ish on the buy. 2.5% 60 months $960 interest over the term.

168 on the lease (spreading the down over the term, i'm not including interest of spreading out that payment nor the taxes on the amount you are paying but it would add a bit to the lease cost), but you get nothing in return at the end.

After 5 years if you buy, you own the vehicle and is has 50k miles on it. If you lease, you keep leasing, lets say the vehicle lasts 100k, although it will likely last much longer, more like 150k.

20k (assuming over the 10 years you get the same exact deal which is unlikely) in lease costs over 10 years (if you buy the vehcile has 100k miles on it and likely has many more left). More like 30k in lease cost because these vehicles last a long time (150k miles on that bought vehicle). Lets split the difference and say 25k in lease costs (125k miles on that bought vehicle or roughly 13 years leasing)

25k - 16.2k = 8,800 more in higher leasing cost on a cheap sub compact. 50% more vehicle cost.

Leasing is significantly more expensive and only gets more expensive on higher end vehicles with steeper depreciation curves. I excluded taxes because both leases and buying have taxes which is why your payment never matches the advertised rate (interest and taxes). Those parts are just hidden better.

Last edited by aridon; 11-12-2019 at 09:45 AM..
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:47 AM
 
4,285 posts, read 3,957,312 times
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I bought my first car when I was about 26, which was the first time that I NEEDED a car in order to get to a new job in the suburbs that paid twice what I was being paid at the job in the city, that I could and did reach on public transportation. It was a cheap little car, that cost around 8k. I borrowed 5k from my mom, paid her off in 6 months, because I COULD - I was earning so much more, and still living so cheaply. I drove that little ---box for the next ten years. I never took other than a zero percent loan (only when it was the best incentive) after that, because I lived well below my means and SAVED my money, so that the next time I had to buy a car, I had the cash on hand to do it.

It rarely makes sense to lease, unless someone else is paying for your car. And the LAST thing to look at is the monthly payment, when negotiating a car purchase. First, the price. Then, the financing (and factor in how it affects the price). Last, the trade in, if you want to do that. Most of all, buy the car that fits your NEEDS, not your wants. If you cannot afford the car without an absurdly long loan, you cannot afford that car! And if you're smart, you live below your means and quickly get into the position of not having to borrow to buy the next car. If you say, "I cannot do that, living is too expensive, I can never save up enough to be in that position", then you cannot afford to drive that car!
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:57 AM
 
4,458 posts, read 1,159,710 times
Reputation: 5232
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
I am the owner of a 2018 Ford F-150. I intend to drive my truck for the next 20 or more years. I don't intend to get rid of it ever. One thing that I have always thought was funny was when someone says they are going to buy a car and drive it into the ground. As in they will be the one to finally kill the car.

My thought: Drive it and maintain it so that when you don't need it anymore it still works.

I bought my truck after driving a 2003 Chevy Astro van for 181,000 + miles and 16 years. I had always wanted another truck and loved the way the Ford looked. Also with a truck, take care of it and it will take care of you. I see it as a longer lasting type of vehicle. A friend that used to live around here owns a 1997 Dodge Ram truck. He bought it new. He still owns it. A year or two ago he put it in the garage and replaced a lot of things on it. Sent it out for paint and had a guy redo the interior of the truck. It looks new again.
That’s a great idea! My mother insists on keeping her 1995 Jeep and 1999 Durango despite the mileage, 250k (4.0L I6) and 280k (5.2L V8) respectively. Haven’t repainted but you can’t beat the feeling of not worrying about your paint in a parking lot.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
25,196 posts, read 18,682,788 times
Reputation: 29717
One of the big issues I see is that new SUVS/CUVs/pickups (not necessarily mass market sedans like a Camry or Accord) are really exploding in price beyond what most people can afford.

I have a 2015 Cherokee. It has had some mechanical issues recently, and I casually browsed a few car lots. A baseline CR-V is going to start out at around $25,000 MSRP. A baseline Outback is around $27,000 MSRP. With virtually any options at all, any new midsize crossover above a base trim, other than a Korean car, will be at least $30,000. It doesn't take much to get a $35k-$40k Outback, Rav4, etc.
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