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Old 09-27-2020, 11:07 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
6,605 posts, read 2,489,870 times
Reputation: 4412

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
The IRS can just charge you with civil tax fraud instead of criminal tax fraud. This can be up to a 75% PENALTY on taxes underpaid. That penalty is on top of any other penalties for failure to file, material under payments, ect. The intent is punitive. The standard is a preponderance of the evidence instead of beyond a reasonable doubt. They’d rather raise revenue than put you behind bars anyways, especially if you’re some average joe and not a high profile person with say international and or/multistate economic reach. In other words, you’re not worth the time, cost, and risk of a criminal trial so you’re just going to get buried in penalty’s.
The burden of proof still falls on the IRS to prove the underpayment is relative to fraud i.e. clear and convincing evidence (despite being an intermediate standard) via an affirmative act.
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Old 09-27-2020, 03:23 PM
 
5,782 posts, read 3,893,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
The burden of proof still falls on the IRS to prove the underpayment is relative to fraud i.e. clear and convincing evidence (despite being an intermediate standard) via an affirmative act.
Do you work with revenue agency’s much? Most audits start with absolutely ridiculous positions and extrapolations from the government. You have to object to it, or it stands, and the burden is on you to prove them wrong. They aren’t going to prove **** to you. They’re going to slap you with a penalty and taxes owed, and say you prove ME wrong. As they say....since they can’t dazzle you with brilliance, they’ll baffle you with bull****.

Also, the standard for civil tax fraud is far more forgiving to the government and only requires a more likely than not standard.

Your call is very important to us! Due to unusually high call volume....oh sorry we can’t make decisions on that...let me transfer you to an agent...oh wait you got dropped. Your call is very...

Last edited by Thatsright19; 09-27-2020 at 03:36 PM..
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Old 09-27-2020, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 16,437,052 times
Reputation: 25181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azureth View Post
They ALWAYS get caught, and get a stiff prison sentence, why are there people that think they can get away with it? I mean heck, in our current system Tax Evasion is treated far worse than rape, murder and genocide, so just how stupid does one have to be to do it?
The IRS has been gutted. It doesn't have the staff to do audits, and doesn't have the funding to fight the penalties out in court.
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Old 09-27-2020, 05:59 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
6,605 posts, read 2,489,870 times
Reputation: 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Do you work with revenue agency’s much? Most audits start with absolutely ridiculous positions and extrapolations from the government. You have to object to it, or it stands, and the burden is on you to prove them wrong. They aren’t going to prove **** to you. They’re going to slap you with a penalty and taxes owed, and say you prove ME wrong. As they say....since they can’t dazzle you with brilliance, they’ll baffle you with bull****.

Also, the standard for civil tax fraud is far more forgiving to the government and only requires a more likely than not standard.

Your call is very important to us! Due to unusually high call volume....oh sorry we can’t make decisions on that...let me transfer you to an agent...oh wait you got dropped. Your call is very...
Say what - lol? There's a difference between (and many reasons for) an audit (relative to underpayment) vs. building a case/establishing fraud - civil or criminal.

A 'slap on the hand' and (possible) penalties for underpayment of taxes (relative to error, negligence, whatever) is not the same as (establishing/proving) criminal (tax evasion) or civil tax fraud.
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Old 09-28-2020, 07:26 AM
 
7,474 posts, read 6,053,466 times
Reputation: 16644
The thread just became more timely considering yesterday's New York Times story on Trump's taxes.
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Old 09-29-2020, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Boston
18,574 posts, read 7,144,373 times
Reputation: 16112
In 2018, Amazon paid $0 in U.S. federal income tax on more than $11 billion in profits before taxes. It also received a $129 million tax rebate from the federal government. .

Will Jeffy B come by to answer questions about his failure to pay taxes?
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:37 PM
 
9,212 posts, read 4,644,180 times
Reputation: 8740
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
In 2018, Amazon paid $0 in U.S. federal income tax on more than $11 billion in profits before taxes. It also received a $129 million tax rebate from the federal government. .

Will Jeffy B come by to answer questions about his failure to pay taxes?
In 2018, did Amazon have $11 billion in taxable income?
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Old 09-29-2020, 09:54 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
6,605 posts, read 2,489,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post

Will Jeffy B come by to answer questions about his failure to pay taxes?
AMZN didn't 'fail' to pay federal income tax in 2018. It's simply an excellent example of tax avoidance, thanks to a top-notch legal/tax team as well as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, which (among other changes) lowered the corporate income tax rate by 14%.
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Old 09-30-2020, 05:01 AM
 
7,474 posts, read 6,053,466 times
Reputation: 16644
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
In 2018, Amazon paid $0 in U.S. federal income tax on more than $11 billion in profits before taxes. It also received a $129 million tax rebate from the federal government. .

Will Jeffy B come by to answer questions about his failure to pay taxes?
Amazon reportedly paid $162 million in federal taxes in 2019 and deferred another $914 million to future years.
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Old 09-30-2020, 08:11 AM
 
2,533 posts, read 1,448,162 times
Reputation: 4038
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1insider View Post
Amazon reportedly paid $162 million in federal taxes in 2019 and deferred another $914 million to future years.
Correction, Amazon recorded $162 million of current US federal income tax expense and $914 million of deferred US federal income tax expense for financial reporting purposes.
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