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Old 08-10-2020, 10:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Blackandgold51 View Post
?
Do you not think China was likewise impacted by COVID? All countries in the world were impacted economically. They appear to have made a good rebound actually but no one really knows truly what there situation is, the government controls the true numbers and they hold that information close to the vest.
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Embarrassing, WA
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Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
They might come out ahead of the world. Releasing the virus was a brilliant move.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_Warfare
I think this is why Covid-19 came to be. I'm reminded of the scene from Braveheart where the King calls for the archers "Won't we hit our own men too? Well, yes we will, but we'll hit theirs too and we have more".....
Also, China's authoritarian rule over the people allows them to simply lockdown their people at a low cost...."here's some rice and dog food, stay inside!" Meanwhile, other countries are having to pass stimulus and all kinds of financial programs to keep their economies afloat.
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo View Post
what constitutes a super power in your understanding of the definition?
economy? military? technology? influence through soft power?

china comes close in all but the last one, which they lag horribly behind.
and china was poised to surpass us economically in the 2020s. by some measures, they already have but the if going by the broadly used GDP metric, they have not.
I don't know if the virus has altered that trajectory any.
China isn’t a global super power. It’s a rising great power. It hasn’t even achieved dominance in its own region. Let alone dictating affairs in say...Europe or North America. It’s surrounded by U.S influence and that of our allies.

Also, you’re delusional if you think they come in close second in (at least several) those other categories, especially militarily. It can’t project power on the other side of the globe with its military let alone in multiple theaters. The U.S can also wield tremendously more economic power through its influence/cooperation with the ECB, BOJ, and BOE. Not to mention full veto power in the imf and world bank.

The U.S has key and long lasting relationships with almost all of the other great powers. They will rise to protect the U.S order because western dominance is in their interest.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 08-10-2020 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 08-10-2020, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Bangkok
11,921 posts, read 6,187,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo View Post
what constitutes a super power in your understanding of the definition?
economy? military? technology? influence through soft power?

china comes close in all but the last one, which they lag horribly behind.
Economy - China's economy ranks high only by sheer volume, they still lag developed nations nations in GDP PPP per capita.

Military - China is still only a regional military power, they couldn't project power anywhere but close to their borders.

Technology - China lacks innovation and only has tech companies that rank high in the world because their government mandates their citizens use their products and services.
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Old 08-10-2020, 02:07 PM
 
1,410 posts, read 936,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo View Post
and china was poised to surpass us economically in the 2020s. by some measures, they already have but the if going by the broadly used GDP metric, they have not.
I don't know if the virus has altered that trajectory any.
Actually no. It's been predicted they will be equal in economic might around 2048 IF ALL THINGS REMAIN THE SAME. ....Which they won't. So at the closest we are still just under 30 years away. However, as mentioned, they have a large Baby Boom population they will need to take care of. I dont see them coming close to the US on their own. The only way it will happen is if the USA brings it's self down or there is some cataclysmic event that happens in the USA.
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Old 08-10-2020, 03:07 PM
 
3,768 posts, read 1,301,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
China isn’t a global super power. It’s a rising great power. It hasn’t even achieved dominance in its own region. Let alone dictating affairs in say...Europe or North America. It’s surrounded by U.S influence and that of our allies.

Also, you’re delusional if you think they come in close second in (at least several) those other categories, especially militarily. It can’t project power on the other side of the globe with its military let alone in multiple theaters. The U.S can also wield tremendously more economic power through its influence/cooperation with the ECB, BOJ, and BOE. Not to mention full veto power in the imf and world bank.

The U.S has key and long lasting relationships with almost all of the other great powers. They will rise to protect the U.S order because western dominance is in their interest.
fair, but USA is losing clout due to weaponizing the USD and incessant sanctioning of countries.
countries like russia and china are coming up with their own payment system outside of swift.
china and iran , germany and russia are trading oil, south korea and north korea are trading commodities.
countries are sick and tired of us calling the shots.

so which nation is #2 in the listed categories then?
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Old 08-10-2020, 04:21 PM
 
3,768 posts, read 1,301,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
Economy - China's economy ranks high only by sheer volume, they still lag developed nations nations in GDP PPP per capita.

Military - China is still only a regional military power, they couldn't project power anywhere but close to their borders.

Technology - China lacks innovation and only has tech companies that rank high in the world because their government mandates their citizens use their products and services.
disagree on the technology point. one needs to look no further than huawei's 5G lead to see that they are leading and innovating.
landing on the dark side of the moon is another technological feat, being the first to do it. india on the other hand lost contact with the craft and crashed on their attempt.
their mobile platforms such as wechat that basically is the lifeblood for their citizens - text msg, voice msg, photo sharing, social media, mobile payments for everything, peer to peer payments, etc. - goes beyond anything that US tech companies have created.
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Old 08-10-2020, 04:46 PM
 
5,782 posts, read 3,897,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo View Post
fair, but USA is losing clout due to weaponizing the USD and incessant sanctioning of countries.
countries like russia and china are coming up with their own payment system outside of swift.
china and iran , germany and russia are trading oil, south korea and north korea are trading commodities.
countries are sick and tired of us calling the shots.

so which nation is #2 in the listed categories then?
China, Iran, and Russia are free to set up that competing system. I’m sure it will be great fun to submit to their authority and I’m sure they would never use the power nefariously. I don’t know if I’d support a Chinese/Russian order when in the last century they’ve each been ran by two of the most brutal mass murders in human history, have had revolutions, and economic collapses. It’s not exactly the pristine image of stability and openness. I won’t be loading up on any Russian rubles any time soon, how about you?

Due to alignment with the U.S, I would argue that Germany or say the Uk can exert just as much global power as China. China is second in economics (well, at least on a gross basis, but their population is large), but not second in military or influence. And even if you have them slotted at second overall, it’s a distant second in the way I’d compare McDonald’s to Burger King. One is an international powerhouse, and the other is a relatively regional power that doesn’t even dominate its own region over said international power.

You basically listed a bunch of U.S adversaries trading together. Ok. And then north and South Korea trading? Ok? They’re direct neighbors.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 08-10-2020 at 04:59 PM..
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Old 08-10-2020, 05:01 PM
 
3,768 posts, read 1,301,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
China, Iran, and Russia are free to set up that competing system. I’m sure it will be great fun to submit to their authority and I’m sure they would never use the power nefariously. I don’t know if I’d support a Chinese/Russian order when in the last century they’ve each been ran by two of the most brutal mass murders in human history, have had revolutions, and economic collapses. It’s not exactly the pristine image of stability and openness.

Due to alignment with the U.S, I would argue that Germany or say the Uk can exert just as much global power as China. China is second in economics (well, at least on a gross basis, but their population is large), but not second in military or influence. And even if you have them slotted at second overall, it’s a distant second.

You basically listed a bunch of U.S adversaries trading together. Ok. And then north and South Korea trading? Ok? They’re direct neighbors.
no, I am listing a bunch of countries that are trading with countries that the US has sanctioned, some of them our allies.

who is 2nd militarily? perhaps russia?
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Old 08-10-2020, 05:29 PM
 
5,782 posts, read 3,897,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo View Post
no, I am listing a bunch of countries that are trading with countries that the US has sanctioned, some of them our allies.

who is 2nd militarily? perhaps russia?
So they trade with countries we sanctioned. It happens.

Russia.

But my point is about distant second is that China can’t project military power on a global basis. Hell, the U.S just did two freedom of navigation of exercises in the South China Sea with 2 u.s carrier groups. We rejected their territorial claims and said not only do we reject it, but then they sent the ultimate flagrant message of we go where we please. And we did it again for good measure.

Image a country doing that in the Gulf of Mexico.
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