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08-20-2020, 06:05 PM
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10,521 posts, read 4,587,187 times
Reputation: 14042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo
In what way is it not a large scale systemic failure when there is not enough surge capacity to cover the state and need to have other areas cover CA needs. This is just exporting the capacity to where the plants can be built without CA onerous regulations and high costs. CA won't build gas powered generation due to green initiatives but is Ok with using the gas generator electricity from other states - what hypocrites.
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As I pointed out earlier, Calif. passed a law requiring a multi-year buildup of storage so solar power can be time-shifted into the evenings. Less than half of that storage is online and more is coming very soon. There's an element of bad luck that this unusual heat wave happened when it did. I also concede there is an element of underestimating loads during extreme heat waves. But in the end it turned out be a one day event, hardly a systemic failure. They can tweak their models and adjust accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo
BTW - The reason given for the blackout was loss of 1,000 MW of wind generation capacity - part of the issue when use sources that are based on environmental factors that can't be controlled.
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Fossil fuel plants are complex, have a lot of moving parts. They can and do trip offline without warning. All types of generation requires reserve capacity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo
Also as to the issue of generating from imported sources on your other post - Natural Gas is not imported - CA and the US are net exporters of Natural gas.
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By "imported" I mean imported from other states. That puts us at the mercy of the producers in other states to deliver gas to us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo
Look at it this way - CA qualifies as a developing country as far as electric capacity is concerned, where electricity generation capacity is overregulated, underfunded, underbuilt and infrastructure is poorly managed. A perfect example is PG&E last year.
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We are a world class leader in the transition from fossil fuel dependency to renewables. Regarding PG&E, I won't defend them and their management problems, that's a whole separate issue.
Last edited by Elliott_CA; 08-20-2020 at 06:15 PM..
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08-20-2020, 11:33 PM
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Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
5,663 posts, read 2,180,580 times
Reputation: 6654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA
As I pointed out earlier, Calif. passed a law requiring a multi-year buildup of storage so solar power can be time-shifted into the evenings. Less than half of that storage is online and more is coming very soon. There's an element of bad luck that this unusual heat wave happened when it did. I also concede there is an element of underestimating loads during extreme heat waves. But in the end it turned out be a one day event, hardly a systemic failure. They can tweak their models and adjust accordingly.
Fossil fuel plants are complex, have a lot of moving parts. They can and do trip offline without warning. All types of generation requires reserve capacity.
By "imported" I mean imported from other states. That puts us at the mercy of the producers in other states to deliver gas to us.
We are a world class leader in the transition from fossil fuel dependency to renewables. Regarding PG&E, I won't defend them and their management problems, that's a whole separate issue.
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You are just making excuses - CA has shutdown capacity before replacements are on line and was late with how to deal with capacity peak not matching demand peak. They are currently building Natural gas plants to plug the system.
Fossil fuel plants are pretty simple and rarely trip offline. They are there precisely for surge because they are RELIABLE - they ARE the backup.
CA is a net exporter of Natural Gas - again just making excuses - Data from US Energy Information Administration - EIA.gov
2016 - Import 169, Export 125,215 thousand Cu FT
2017 - Import 756, Export 127,951 thousand Cu FT
CA is far from a leader in transition, Even in normal conditions, CA imports a large amount of its energy from other states, more than any other. Natural Gas is used for almost 50% of power used in CA. |
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08-21-2020, 04:48 AM
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Location: plano
7,880 posts, read 10,553,801 times
Reputation: 7733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA
As I pointed out earlier, Calif. passed a law requiring a multi-year buildup of storage so solar power can be time-shifted into the evenings. Less than half of that storage is online and more is coming very soon. There's an element of bad luck that this unusual heat wave happened when it did. I also concede there is an element of underestimating loads during extreme heat waves. But in the end it turned out be a one day event, hardly a systemic failure. They can tweak their models and adjust accordingly.
Fossil fuel plants are complex, have a lot of moving parts. They can and do trip offline without warning. All types of generation requires reserve capacity.
By "imported" I mean imported from other states. That puts us at the mercy of the producers in other states to deliver gas to us.
We are a world class leader in the transition from fossil fuel dependency to renewables. Regarding PG&E, I won't defend them and their management problems, that's a whole separate issue.
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Your bad luck situation is called bad planning and implementation by most. Is Ca a leader is poor implementation to be on the bleeding edge of this radical shift? I think so |
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08-23-2020, 10:40 AM
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10,521 posts, read 4,587,187 times
Reputation: 14042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo
Fossil fuel plants are pretty simple and rarely trip offline. They are there precisely for surge because they are RELIABLE - they ARE the backup.
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On the day of the blackout a 470 MW gas plant tripped and went offline. A second 500 MW gas plant went down shortly before the heat wave started and was unavailable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo
CA is a net exporter of Natural Gas - again just making excuses - Data from US Energy Information Administration - EIA.gov
2016 - Import 169, Export 125,215 thousand Cu FT
2017 - Import 756, Export 127,951 thousand Cu FT
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Most of those exports is gas from other states that uses pipes that go through California and cross the border into Mexico. https://inewsource.org/2017/03/27/na...co-skyrockets/
Spin it however you want but the vast majority of energy in California will be renewables, all home-grown production. That train has left the station and it's not coming back. |
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