Americans are the richest they have ever been (foreclosure, credit, companies)

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by ddeemo

You don't seem to grasp what I was saying - it is personal a choice to take on ANY debt - good or bad. I am not talking about getting out of debt, I am talking about what debt is Ok to get into. No one should take on debt that they can't pay off but what is worse, most choose to take on debt that is bad instead of good.

I have owned property since the 80s so have experienced the ups and downs of property ownership. I have paid off many mortgages, the first one in 1983 with 15% interest when I was 25 and making very little. A housing bubble is different than a housing crash - the bubble / GFC was caused by US admin encouraging banks to lend to those that could not afford to repay driving up prices. Good for those selling, bad for those buying.

I think you will find that many here are not in a situation where struggling in debt and mortgage is never paid off. If you are - try working it off instead of getting further and further behind and just giving up.

The Dotcom bubble was 25 years ago, housing bubble was 12 years ago - what is your point, My response about 1929 was in response to you comment "If it were not for the ever increasing debt bubble the country would be in a 1930's depression." - the crash of 1929 was example of the exact opposite where debt caused the crash, not saved it - where on your flat earth have you been - did you forget your own statement?

Sometimes life happens.

I’m a fairly high income earner ($90k range) by local standards. I’m 34, but have only been at this income for about a year. Prior to that, I was at $70k for about a year, then $56k for the prior two years, around $50k for another year. Everything before that (four years of my career) was mostly $15/hr or lower. In other words, I don’t have ten years of history and savings at this income level to brace me for life’s issues.

I bought a townhome last year for about $98k. My mortgage is $679/month. I couldn’t afford to put more down than about $10k - it was hard to save that out of cash flow. My rent prior to my mortgage was around $900/month. I have about 500 sq. Ft. More living space now as an owner occupant and have a 550 sq.ft drive under garage. It is 2BR/2BA, with a 150 sq. Ft loft area that has been doubling as my home office. It was a big upgrade.

My Jeep had about $2000 of engine, strut, and shock work last year. Another $800 in the winter. The engine gave major trouble around Memorial Day. Total estimated cost of repairs for everything on the car was about $4500. Trading cars by June 1 was not on my mind at all on March 1.

I traded the Jeep and ended up with about $2500 negative equity on my Subaru. It’s 0% APR for 60 months, so not really a problem. But what if someone had been deeper underwater or couldn’t qualify the 0%? Car trading wasn’t in the cards (or the budget) at the first of the year. I’ve had to make way for it because I didn’t know how much more the Jeep would cost and what the next shoe to fall would be.

[Rocko20]

Originally Posted by Liberal4Trump

We basically bicker with each other because we don’t have any major problems to worry about.

We are bored.

We (and many other 1st world countries) have personal debt, savings, and retirement to worry about. But yes, other than those self-inflicting problems, we don't have to worry about running water, A/C, political instability, or where to locate food.

We've ate ourselves into obesity and we've spent ourselves into debt. I don't think Americans are bored, as we work harder than many other countries with rarely any days off, we just spend our time off doing unhealthy and unproductive things.

[skeddy]

Originally Posted by HJ99

Shirty kind of system that requires a 20% slave or indentured servant class. Its may work best for the 80%, not so wonderful for that 20%. And its not that easy to dig your way out of such situation in modern times. Used to be, if you were white and male and could show up every day and put up with the tedium of factory line job, bingo you were middle class and could buy a 1200sq ft tract house and a new entry level full size Chevy. Meaning you got serious income and affordable housing, not McD kinda of part time income and $1200 a month rent for an efficiency and $30k new cars.


Wont even mention no fiscal education and hard sell for ever more consumer debt, cause debt is what makes this economy turn. If everybody was bright enough to avoid consumer debt, then there wouldnt be any jobs cause nothing would sell. Its a make believe economy built on a house of cards and backs of a slave class.

excuses and more excuses........ live within your means or find a marketable skill that changes your lot in life, if you're living hand to mouth nobody cares.....that's on you.

[k374]

I know people in LA who are waiters, receptionists, janitors even... they make $10-15/hr but they have $500,000 in equity in their houses since they bought their houses 20 years ago for virtually nothing and homes have appreciated 600-700% since then. In the late 90s you could buy a good home in Orange County, CA for $150,000. Now that same home is over $1M.
These people may be cash flow poor but they are net worth rich. In CA you even have property taxes subsidized by the government (Prop 13) so there are plenty of people paying a pittance in taxes owning $1+M homes.

[TheOverdog]

In the late 90s you could buy a good home in Orange County, CA for $150,000. Now that same home is over $1M.
These people may be cash flow poor but they are net worth rich. In CA you even have property taxes subsidized by the government (Prop 13) so there are plenty of people paying a pittance in taxes owning $1+M homes.

My in-laws live in Orange County. Their home cost $50k in 1955, and now it's worth $800k, and their property taxes are about $1750 a year. I'm not going to say it was impossible to buy a 'good' house in the 1990s for $150k in OC, but my sister owned a so-so condo in San Diego and it was more like $300k in 1996, and my wife a small but nice-ish condo near the beach and it was close to $400k in 1999. So yeah, prices have appreciated, but more like 5% a year than 700% in 20 years.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by ddeemo

The data was that the median net worth of homeowners ($231,400) increased 15%, renters or other nonhomeowners saw their median net worth fall 5% to $5,200 from 2013 to 2016.

As EDS said - Homeowners have 44.5x the wealth of renters.

Renters also tend to be younger - Median net worth by age:
< 35: $11,100.
35-44: $59,800.
45-54: $124,200.
55-64: $187,300.
65-74: $224,100.
75+: $264,800.

Nothing surprising about this. Young people tend to have less assets. It usually takes people a while to make decent income, buy a home, save for retirement, etc. The income inequality thing is way over blown. The poverty rate in America is declining and the American poor live quite well. And California, the most liberal state has the highest poverty rate in the country. All that "progressive" do gooding hasn't helped them much.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by dcfas

Yes. What happens to that number when there is a 30% tank in the markets? Funny how you can have a fortune in your ira and barely anything in your checking account. In a sense, your retirement savings are just a number until you actually start drawing.

True, I guess. But that IRA/401k number is extremely important.

[dcfas]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

My in-laws live in Orange County. Their home cost $50k in 1955, and now it's worth $800k, and their property taxes are about $1750 a year. I'm not going to say it was impossible to buy a 'good' house in the 1990s for $150k in OC, but my sister owned a so-so condo in San Diego and it was more like $300k in 1996, and my wife a small but nice-ish condo near the beach and it was close to $400k in 1999. So yeah, prices have appreciated, but more like 5% a year than 700% in 20 years.

A friend of mine bought a house right around 2000 for 400k. I was shocked to learn it was a 1500 sq. Ft. ranch. Also amazed that he could get a loan for that amount at the time. Wonder what it is worth now.

[Taggerung]

If Americans are so rich, why did everyone need a massive government bailout when Covid hit?

Which is worse, WWII or Covid 19? WWII right? It's not even a comparison, no one would choose to live through WWII over Covid. Yet, during WWII, no American received a single nickel of government money- in fact Americans lent the government the equivalent of trillions of dollars by purchasing war bonds. This was despite having lived in an economic depression for over a decade. Could the "richest they've ever been" Americans do that now?

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by k374

In the late 1990s you could buy a good home in Orange County, CA for $150,000. Now that same home is over $1M.

Depends where in Orange County you lived. Typical home prices in the late 1990s in that county were a little below $300K. And mortgage interest rates were around 7.9 to 8.1%.