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I know a dude who's been out of work since summer 2019 or so. Dude is in his mid 30s. He just lives in his parents' house and collects benefits. He might be on disability now, not sure, because he has a chronic illness (though I'm not sure it's the kind that qualifies you for disability benefits). I think the parents tolerate it because he's their only child and he has that illness.
Now just to be clear, I don't think that particular illness actually keeps him from working. He was canned at his last job for unrelated behavioral issues and that's really the reason he's out of work. He has in-demand qualifications, but his sporadic attempts to find work in his area end in failure (most likely due to his checkered work history).
His girlfriend is also unemployed and lives with him at his parents' house. They are most definitely *not* working. They're just getting by on the welfare state and their parents' care.
Almost one-third of all working-age men in America aren’t doing diddly-squat. They don’t have a job, and they aren’t looking for one either. One-third of all working-age men. That’s almost 30 million people!
How do they live? What are they doing for money?
-Unemployment insurance
-Early retirement, pensions, disability and lawsuits
-Savings, trading stocks, and bitcoin
-Working for cash, aka the under-the-table economy
-Living off family members
-Illegal work
-Living off the land
It seems like working legally to provide for yourself in America is really just one option these days.
OP, isn't your concern about this a bit ill-timed? People are still out of work due to Covid. I wonder what the statistic was before Covid. That would be a more meaningful measure of something we could consider to be a norm.
I know a dude who's been out of work since summer 2019 or so. Dude is in his mid 30s. He just lives in his parents' house and collects benefits. He might be on disability now, not sure, because he has a chronic illness (though I'm not sure it's the kind that qualifies you for disability benefits). I think the parents tolerate it because he's their only child and he has that illness.
Now just to be clear, I don't think that particular illness actually keeps him from working. He was canned at his last job for unrelated behavioral issues and that's really the reason he's out of work. He has in-demand qualifications, but his sporadic attempts to find work in his area end in failure (most likely due to his checkered work history).
His girlfriend is also unemployed and lives with him at his parents' house. They are most definitely *not* working. They're just getting by on the welfare state and their parents' care.
Welfare as we knew it changed radically under Clinton. AFAIK, it hasn't changed back. People can no longer live out an entire lifetime on it.
Perhaps you weren't referring to actual "welfare", but to programs like SSDI and food stamps. Those are there for a good reason, and it's hard to fool the SSDI gatekeepers. Plus, once you're on it, you have to be re-evaluated by a medical or psych professional annually, to prove to SS that you still need the assistance.
We don't know for sure if the guy you refer to is bona-fide disabled, but if he's getting SSDI, the chances are good that he truly is. If he got canned due to behavioral issues, that could be part of a mental health condition, who knows. Or....not, but again; it's hard to fool the gatekeepers. One has to be diagnosed by a professional deemed qualified by the SS Admin, and they have high standards for that. But the gf sounds fully able-bodied and able to work.
Welfare as we knew it changed radically under Clinton. AFAIK, it hasn't changed back. People can no longer live out an entire lifetime on it.
Perhaps you weren't referring to actual "welfare", but to programs like SSDI and food stamps. Those are there for a good reason, and it's hard to fool the SSDI gatekeepers. Plus, once you're on it, you have to be re-evaluated by a medical or psych professional annually, to prove to SS that you still need the assistance.
We don't know for sure if the guy you refer to is bona-fide disabled, but if he's getting SSDI, the chances are good that he truly is. If he got canned due to behavioral issues, that could be part of a mental health condition, who knows. Or....not, but again; it's hard to fool the gatekeepers. One has to be diagnosed by a professional deemed qualified by the SS Admin, and they have high standards for that. But the gf sounds fully able-bodied and able to work.
yes - if welfare was so great - wouldn't we all want to be on it?
OP, isn't your concern about this a bit ill-timed? People are still out of work due to Covid. I wonder what the statistic was before Covid. That would be a more meaningful measure of something we could consider to be a norm.
Me too. FWIW, I just talked to my neighbor. School has been in session about 4.5 weeks so far. Her daughter has been quarantined for 12 days so far out of the 23 days school has actually been in session. How on earth is a parent supposed to be able to maintain a new full-time job with that sort of schedule?
Please, do continue.
When foreign countries produce most of our goods, we're extremely vulnerable; and unsustainable.
We can't have everyone sitting home playing markets and mining bitcoin.
In the end, the house always wins.
Not worth addressing if you think that only things of value is tangible. Your point is also irrelevant to this thread.... start a new one.
Welfare as we knew it changed radically under Clinton. AFAIK, it hasn't changed back. People can no longer live out an entire lifetime on it.
Perhaps you weren't referring to actual "welfare", but to programs like SSDI and food stamps. Those are there for a good reason, and it's hard to fool the SSDI gatekeepers. Plus, once you're on it, you have to be re-evaluated by a medical or psych professional annually, to prove to SS that you still need the assistance.
We don't know for sure if the guy you refer to is bona-fide disabled, but if he's getting SSDI, the chances are good that he truly is. If he got canned due to behavioral issues, that could be part of a mental health condition, who knows. Or....not, but again; it's hard to fool the gatekeepers. One has to be diagnosed by a professional deemed qualified by the SS Admin, and they have high standards for that. But the gf sounds fully able-bodied and able to work.
When I mentioned the welfare state, I was not specifically talking about the welfare program itself, but the government's entire framework of social programs, often referred to as the welfare state collectively.
There's a whole spectrum of people---men---working under the radar.
One was my ex. In rural Montana, not a lot of jobs. He did sporadic construction and when not doing that, he was "living off the land". On his "off" days he was hunting, cutting down trees for firewood and then chopping that. Processing what he hunted and curing hides, canning meat, etc.
He couldn't stand to be tied down to a "regular" job, but he worked every single day.
I think there's a fair amount of "rugged individuals" like that, that most don't even recognize.
Wonder what he's doing without SS, though (since he probably never paid into it).
Almost one-third of all working-age men in America aren’t doing diddly-squat. They don’t have a job, and they aren’t looking for one either. One-third of all working-age men. That’s almost 30 million people!
How do they live? What are they doing for money?
-Unemployment insurance
-Early retirement, pensions, disability and lawsuits
-Savings, trading stocks, and bitcoin
-Working for cash, aka the under-the-table economy
-Living off family members
-Illegal work
-Living off the land
It seems like working legally to provide for yourself in America is really just one option these days.
I don't see any problem.
The first six issues have these characteristics:
1. It's risky, and you can run out of money.
2. Will force many to live at a level lower than they prefer.
3. Can run into legal issues.
4. Strain family life.
5. Less control of your life.
If people wish to live that way long term, it's up to them. Not me.
What is wrong with Early Retirement and pensions? I worked hard for years, saved instead of buying fancy cars, gadgets, etc. So when I was caught in a RIF when some of the folks were scrambling to find new jobs I could take the severance and early retirement and retire. I worked part time for a few years mainly to get out of the house and have something to do but when COVID hit I decided to quit instead of taking chances. I volunteer, have hobbies and am active in local gov't
The same with disabilities I know several people who have disabilities because of the jobs they had and are on long term disability. It wasn't their fault that they had to use strong chemicals or work in poorly ventilated spaces. And most of the folks I know on disability would rather be able to hold a job than suffer the problems they have had.
Savings, stock trading, etc - What is the difference between someone trading stocks and buying and selling used cars, or used books? Or living off savings - If the savings were acquired legally why shouldn't they be allowed to live off them.
Just because they don't follow your life and work style doesn't mean it is wrong or that they didn't work for it.
Your points are valid and legitimate. I believe most people that get up and put in an honest day of work are disgusted by those (like my friend in his late 40's) who take pride in having "gamed" the system. In his mind, he is slicker than most because he convinced others that he could no longer work and therefore deserved permanent taxpayer supported disability benefits. The fact is, he's an able bodied man who lives off the backs of anyone who goes to work each day and pays taxes. I find that disgusting and have zero admiration for his so-called "slickness."
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