Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've got a question that maybe someone on here could answer:
Have you noticed that people often argue that $4/gallon gas is not that expensive because people in Europe are paying the equivalent of $8? Are people making this point taking into account the decreased value of the U.S. dollar? What is the average European salary IN U.S. DOLLARS? I'd bet it's higher than ours. With this information, I think that more meaningful comparisons can be made.
Things people who make this argument need to ask
1. How much do Europeans make in relation to cost of living
2. How much does housing take up from their salary
3. How much is the cost of every day goods in relation to salary
4. Do they have VERY GOOD alternative transportation travel?
5. What is the MPG of the average vehicle over there
6. How pervasive are scooters and motorcycles in these places
In other words are ALL things equal? If they aren't then you are comparing Apples to Oranges.
1. How much do Europeans make in relation to cost of living
2. How much does housing take up from their salary
3. How much is the cost of every day goods in relation to salary
4. Do they have VERY GOOD alternative transportation travel?
5. What is the MPG of the average vehicle over there
6. How pervasive are scooters and motorcycles in these places
In other words are ALL things equal? If they aren't then you are comparing Apples to Oranges.
The other thing I think should be considered is the sheer size of the US in comparison to the E.U. (Not Russia) The distances travled are very slight when compared to here at home. I also believe that more people live in the cities then outside them....
The other thing I think should be considered is the sheer size of the US in comparison to the E.U. (Not Russia) The distances travled are very slight when compared to here at home. I also believe that more people live in the cities then outside them....
Wish we could get some Europeans to chime in on this. This would be a interesting thing to look at.
Europeans I know view life very differently than the Americans I know
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style
Wish we could get some Europeans to chime in on this. This would be a interesting thing to look at.
I've worked in Austria and Germany and had the opportunity to spend time with a few families... so here's my opinion...
Owning a second family car for many is a big deal.
A car the size of a VW Golf is considered the perfect family car.
Everyone I knew was driving a Diesel and the MPG's were 50+
I know this will sound odd... but of the people I came to know... I found really none of them saved for Retirement... They saved to buy a car, go on twice yearly vacations... they save to buy things... but no one save for retirement as Americans do...
Just about everyone starts with 5 weeks vacation and get 14 month's pay each year... in addition to getting paid each month they also get an extra month's pay in July/August for vacation and an extra month's pay in December for Christmas.
They really had no worries about not saving since Property Tax is Extremely Low, those that Rent have Rent Controlled Apartments, Medical and Retirement Homes are State Funded and everyone has a State Pension...
It's also more common for several Generations to live under one roof... unlike here.
People there just don't commute... I can remember a colleague commuting 20 miles and it was thought of as insane to have to drive 20 miles each way to work...
Many drive very little in the Winter and I've seen cars stay in the Garage for weeks at a time... it was also due to not wanting the car exposed to road salt.
One of my co-workers would joke about the cost of fuel telling me it made no difference... every time he'd fill the Tank he stop at 20 Euros...
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 05-26-2008 at 11:45 AM..
With gasoline prices now well over 4 dollars a gallon- in CT. I have no idea when this will stop.
Home heating oil now nearly $4.50 a gallon- it many cost 4-5 thousand dollars to heat some homes here in CT- this winter; we may see some homes actually 'abandoned' if prices remain this high.
Side note here:
I am very surprised that heating oil is still widely used in the Northeast; one would think that either natural gas or electricity would be used for home heat.
On that crime note, I am starting to see a LOT more crime spring up here in South Florida.
Crime has always been bad in South Florida I lived in South Florida from 1977-1990 and crime was just as bad now as it was then.
The Sun-Sentinel is crazy when they print stories like they did a few weeks ago the crimes are up because thugs have no choice and are desperate for money for basic needs.
I've worked in Austria and Germany and had the opportunity to spend time with a few families... so here's my opinion...
Owning a second family car for many is a big deal.
A car the size of a VW Golf is considered the perfect family car.
Everyone I knew was driving a Diesel and the MPG's were 50+
I know this will sound odd... but of the people I came to know... I found really none of them saved for Retirement... They saved to buy a car, go on twice yearly vacations... they save to buy things... but no one save for retirement as Americans do...
Just about everyone starts with 5 weeks vacation and get 14 month's pay each year... in addition to getting paid each month they also get an extra month's pay in July/August for vacation and an extra month's pay in December for Christmas.
They really had no worries about not saving since Property Tax is Extremely Low, those that Rent have Rent Controlled Apartments, Medical and Retirement Homes are State Funded and everyone has a State Pension...
It's also more common for several Generations to live under one roof... unlike here.
People there just don't commute... I can remember a colleague commuting 20 miles and it was thought of as insane to have to drive 20 miles each way to work...
Many drive very little in the Winter and I've seen cars stay in the Garage for weeks at a time... it was also due to not wanting the car exposed to road salt.
One of my co-workers would joke about the cost of fuel telling me it made no difference... every time he'd fill the Tank he stop at 20 Euros...
So I am assuming their jobs were close to their home? How was mass transit in these places? Also what about scooters and motorcycles how popular were they? Man you make Europe sound like paradise, at least on the personal finance front.
Now that I've seen you post this I'll never believe anything you post again...
A friend of mine spent a number of years working in Europe--his description pretty much matches ultrarunner's. Now, of course, one of the reasons that most European countries have long vacations, large pensions, etc., is that their taxation rates would be considered confiscatory by US standards--often a 40-60% income tax rate, plus value-added-tax, etc. So, there is a trade-off there.
One of the major differences in Europe, too, is that they have invested a lot in rail and urban transit systems that actually work, unlike the highway-building morons in the US who think that the only land transportation system is the automobile. European cities are also laid out to be transit and pedestrian-friendly, unlike the auto-dependent "car slums" that we call suburbia.
I had a good friend of mine, who grew up in the wide open spaces of Wyoming, relate an interesting observation about Europe after he spent several years living in Germany. He noted that Germany, despite having a much greater population density than the US, actually felt much less congested than most American cities because development was clustered in the cities and there was open countryside usually close by--even to the biggest cities. He also noted that most Germans owned only one automobile per family (if that) and that it was mostly used for pleasure--living close to work and having good mass transit systems made auto-commuting unnecessary for most people. That model is one we should emulate in the US--and soon. We will pay a terrible economic price if we don't--as fuel prices go up, our wasteful ways of living are making us less competitive with the rest of the world every day. Our current fuel-guzzling lifestyle is a road to poverty and serfdom.
Do you mean "abandoned" as in never come back or "abandoned" as in we will leave for the winter and come back later?
I mean abandoned---if the winter is 'average' 150 Gallons in a home built after 1990 may last a few weeks at 1500 square feet- older homes perhaps half that much time.
I frankly do not know how Senior citizens/ the poor/disabled on fixed incomes will do it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Europeans I know view life very differently than the Americans I know
