Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So why did Toyota and Honda do so well compared to GM and Ford ?
Can you say YEARS of union contracts... When Toyota and Honda each have the same number of retirees and union contracts to support dollar wise that GM or F do, then the story will be quite different !
they just wont stop makin those giant pig cars. americans lovem and wana drive em.
they drive bad and use up lots of fossil fuels and make a lots OPEC people happy and rich.
can we fix this. i am prayin for Mr. obama real hard.
I don't mind giving them loans that they have to pay back. Although Chrysler was already in this situation over 20 years ago, and now they are back in the same position again.
Well its the Democrats who are pushing this real hard. IMO it was a done deal during the campaign.I don't think it will help as I don't see auto sales rising anytime soon and certainly not large SUV which is about all that GM makes that was selling for years.They actually had since the 70's oil embargo to solve their car problems but wanted the money from the SUV that was huge. In the end ;poor management can be fixed with money alone.
I'd like to know what they actually manufacture here. I had to wait weeks for the GM car I was buying to arrive in port from Japan! The cars on the lot had "cold weather packages" here in Texas, so they had to locate and snag one without the cold weather features that was on its way so I could have it. That's a microcosm of how stupidly GM makes decisions.
For that reason, I'd say NO, do NOT bail out these losers. They have proven themselves to be inept and the unions have made American auto manufacturing incredibly expensive. However, what would happen to those of us who have GM cars if GM went under? Who would honor warranties and provide parts and service?
I bought a Saab from GM -- a wonderful, safe, fuel-efficient car that I love. But what does GM do when they buy the brand? NOT capitalize on the brand's known assets -- safety awards, Euro-design, turbo-charged but fuel-efficient vehicles. Nope! They introduce a big ole honkin' Saab SUV!!!!!!! Grrrrr, they're so lost that a map wouldn't help.
I say yes. Why? Millions of jobs will be lost...that is true. Billions of our dollars will be used to prop up a failing company.
Let me put it to you from the, "I've seen that before, dude" side.
I once had a guy that worked with me when I was a machinist. He was an ex-cop. I thought he was trustworthy. He came up to me one day and asked if he could have "$20 bucks 'til the next pay day." I gave him 20 bucks. It took me 8 months to get 5 bucks back. He was always saying "I'll catch you next check." "Yeah, I got it...be back in a minute." "Um, my dad is sick and I just can't get it to you this week."
$20 bucks. 8 months. 16 (maybe 17) pay periods. He could've given me 1 dollar a pay period and we would've be square within a year.
I mentioned it to another guy (another machinist that worked with me) that used to own his own business. He told me, "Well, you've learned a valuable lession and for only $15 bucks." and I'm like "What lesson is that?" and he's like, "Never lend money that you expect to see back."
I've never lent a dime since that day. I've given a dime...actually more...but I've never lent a dime.
I thnk GM is like that dude that I trusted...that I should not have trusted.
It's such a hard call, but I tend to agree with you - even though I know it will be bad. Why? Because the reason GM is not doing well is because they make cars no one wants to buy- I don't see that changing.
If GM fails, I think we're talking economic disaster here and we'll be in for a depression. It would mean every employee of GM, dealers, mechanics, salesmen, advertising people, suppliers, white collar, blue collar will be unemployed. In addition businesses around those plants will close, we are talking millions of people unemployed in a day. This would touch every sector of the economy and would not only devastate the states where Detroit has its manufacturing and parts facilities, but it would affect every state in the USA too.
We've allowed other nations to come into this country virtually unimpeded ... Mercedes in Alabama, BMW in South Carolina, Toyota factory under construction in Mississippi and the list goes on ... we have showered them with enormous, 25 year long-term tax breaks, free land and other incentives cause we are nice people. Yes, jobs were created, but now we're waking up to the fact that American-owned manufacturing facilities are fewer in number because our manufacturing base has been slowly destroyed from within.
For years Japan's gov't did everything they could to keep American made vehicles from being sold in their country. The profits and overhead allocation for each GM & Ford product goes back into production, design, material, reinvestment here in the USA. Toyota and Nissans profits and overhead allocations go to Japan.
Now I'm not saying they don't build a nice vehicle, and it's everyones God given right to choose to purchase with their hard earned USA Greenbacks what they want....but the price of those decisions affect the American economy. These countries are in it for the money only ... OUR money. Just maybe the Japanese won the war over time.
Our gov't approved, out of our pocketbooks I might add, bailout money for the financial institutions and we have loaned or handed out to AIG over one fifth of the entire bailout fund. Of course 'they' tell us it's just a loan and we gonna get some money back .... maybe ... some day.
I agree some sort of restructuring needs to be done with the Motown auto industry and the unions ... a body can sweep floors and pull in mega bucks ... there would have to be some "strings" attached to a bailout or loan. I just can't conceive of Uncle Sam letting the auto manufacturing industry go down the tubes. We didn't have a choice in the financial institution and AIG bailouts and we probably won't have a choice in what the gov't will do for the domestic automobile industry.
I say yes. Why? Millions of jobs will be lost...that is true. Billions of our dollars will be used to prop up a failing company.
Let me put it to you from the, "I've seen that before, dude" side.
I once had a guy that worked with me when I was a machinist. He was an ex-cop. I thought he was trustworthy. He came up to me one day and asked if he could have "$20 bucks 'til the next pay day." I gave him 20 bucks. It took me 8 months to get 5 bucks back. He was always saying "I'll catch you next check." "Yeah, I got it...be back in a minute." "Um, my dad is sick and I just can't get it to you this week."
$20 bucks. 8 months. 16 (maybe 17) pay periods. He could've given me 1 dollar a pay period and we would've be square within a year.
I mentioned it to another guy (another machinist that worked with me) that used to own his own business. He told me, "Well, you've learned a valuable lession and for only $15 bucks." and I'm like "What lesson is that?" and he's like, "Never lend money that you expect to see back."
I've never lent a dime since that day. I've given a dime...actually more...but I've never lent a dime.
I thnk GM is like that dude that I trusted...that I should not have trusted.
Let's see, h**l NO..should we cancel the american apple pie..It's bad enough that Budweiser was sold out to the Europeans.....more bs..
Under the protection of bankruptcy, GM could trim health and pension benefits, whose costs have been dragging down Motor City's cost competitiveness versus foreign automakers. The process would allow GM to shrink its network of dealerships, overriding state laws that would otherwise make such a reduction an expensive headache.
GM could then take steps to retool plants and slash unprofitable brands.
If all these terms could be arranged ahead of time, in a prepackaged bankruptcy, GM could soldier on without skipping a beat, analysts said.
*******************************
The Washington Post article sums it up pretty well.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
