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Old 02-05-2009, 11:31 AM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,305 posts, read 11,816,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryB View Post
We outsource our customer service. The customers hate trying to deal with people from Manila and it would be so great to get all those jobs back locally, but then the product would also go up. If the product goes up, would it hurt our current customers and sales? Probably so.

So even though I would prefer ALL outsourced jobs to come back state side....I can also see where this is a controversial decision for all these companies and manufacturers. I have no idea how to fix the whole thing to make everyone happy.
The way to deal with it is to increase penalties such as tax liabilities and erect some trade barriers, returning to the way things were say, back in the sixties when there was reasonable prosperity.

By paying American workers a decent wage with benefits (as opposed to paying bare subsistence wages to foreigners without benefits or a safe working environment) all prices for that product by all manufacturers could rise somewhat by about the same amount, and yet it would still be cheaper to buy American.

For example, say import tariffs on TVs were increased, the price might be lower for TVs made here. The price to the consumer would be higher, but more of our workers would be employed.

That's the way it worked back then, before free trade. As it stands now, companies have to outsource to compete. The profits rise for the shareholders of those companies, and the CEOs and upper management get paid more, but there are fewer Americans employed.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 2,899,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
The way to deal with it is to increase penalties such as tax liabilities and erect some trade barriers, returning to the way things were say, back in the sixties when there was reasonable prosperity.

By paying American workers a decent wage with benefits (as opposed to paying bare subsistence wages to foreigners without benefits or a safe working environment) all prices for that product by all manufacturers could rise somewhat by about the same amount, and yet it would still be cheaper to buy American.

For example, say import tariffs on TVs were increased, the price might be lower for TVs made here. The price to the consumer would be higher, but more of our workers would be employed.

That's the way it worked back then, before free trade. As it stands now, companies have to outsource to compete. The profits rise for the shareholders of those companies, and the CEOs and upper management get paid more, but there are fewer Americans employed.
I'm not against outsourcing per say or fair trade. In the most part those are good things for the economies of all Countries involved. But, I do believe that profit source and employment source needs to be linked somehow. If you make 90% of your revenues from a country, you better put something back into it in terms of labor/taxes/penalties.

Also, if the standards of living elsewhere increases and that there is some base standard accepted globally (international labor laws), then outsourcing would be less about low cost labor, but more about Who can produce/build the best product. Innovation and productivity would be more important than labor arbitrage.

So, part of our goal should be to increase the global standards instead of just closing our borders, imposing high tariffs, or becoming isolationists.

-chuck22b
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:16 PM
 
1,735 posts, read 4,139,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MomOfToo View Post
Do any of you feel that outsourcing is part blame on our countries economic situation? How can we stop this, as a country? We need to bring these jobs back but we need people on our side. We need the laws changed for companies that do go overseas. Its time we start thinking about our country and stop worrying about helping the other countries. Its done nothing but made enemies for us. We need to figure out the illegal alien situation in the US and make sure Americans have jobs before non Amerian citizens. I feel this country needs to "start over." How do we start?
Of course itís the reason our economy is tanking. When you take millions of good paying middle class jobs out of the economy that radically reduces the amount of people left to keep the economy going. Itís all about balance. All the outsourcing has done is make a few billionaires at the top by stealing it from the middle class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryB View Post
We outsource our customer service. The customers hate trying to deal with people from Manila and it would be so great to get all those jobs back locally, but then the product would also go up. If the product goes up, would it hurt our current customers and sales? Probably so.

So even though I would prefer ALL outsourced jobs to come back state side....I can also see where this is a controversial decision for all these companies and manufacturers. I have no idea how to fix the whole thing to make everyone happy.
The products wonít go up because they never went down. All the savings went to a few greedy corporate heads at the top. If these jobs were brought back and the corporate heads were paid the same worker to CEO ratio that they were paid in the 60ís then they would be able to pay a living wage to the workers.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:08 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,160 posts, read 18,142,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b View Post
So, part of our goal should be to increase the global standards instead of just closing our borders, imposing high tariffs, or becoming isolationists.

-chuck22b
Meaningless, sounds nice but is really an excuse to do nothing. We can't increase global standards but we can raise tariffs. We can talk about what we've no ability to do or we can do what we have the ability to do.
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Old 02-05-2009, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 2,899,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Meaningless, sounds nice but is really an excuse to do nothing. We can't increase global standards but we can raise tariffs. We can talk about what we've no ability to do or we can do what we have the ability to do.
The problem with tariffs is that tariffs are directed at the products, and not at the problem of labor arbitrage and the shift of wealth from the middle to the few.

In effect, tariffs are going to be a tax on the consumers and would also reduce our own exports and close down trade. Furthermore, how do you target tariffs for service jobs?

The problem is that it's inherently "cheaper" to have workers in other countries than it is to have them here. So, we have to address "why" it is cheaper overseas than to have the same workers here. Basically, it boils down to standards, currency, and cost of living. Therefore, we have to raise their standards OR we have to lower our standards. In the most part, it is most preferable and in fact easier to raise their standards rather than lower ours - lowering our standards kills the customer/tax base as we are seeing now.

The US and other industrialized/western nations can influence global labor practices because the US and other western nations are the principal customers. If there are policies that penalize/tax companies for shipping out jobs and if the US refuses to do business with Countries that have sub-standard labor practices, then in effect, the US and other industrialized nations Can influence international and foreign labor practices.

So, it's three prong.

1) Instill a standard or policy for companies that want to do business in the USA. Companies who ships jobs overseas must ensure some sort of balance of labor source and profit source (ie, if you earn 90% of your profit from US, you have to put in a good percent of your labor force, taxes/penalties back into the US)

2) Increase international/developing country standards by refusing to do business with Countries that have poor/sub standard labor practices or impose restrictions.

3) Diminish the value of our currency which would increase the value of their's which would reduce the currency arbitrage - cost of living.

-chuck22b
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Old 02-06-2009, 02:28 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,029,157 times
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Anyone that thinks tariffs are great right now should read up on the Smoot Hawley tariff Act of 1930 and how it contributed to going from a recession into the Great Depression.
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Old 02-06-2009, 05:12 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,160 posts, read 18,142,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Anyone that thinks tariffs are great right now should read up on the Smoot Hawley tariff Act of 1930 and how it contributed to going from a recession into the Great Depression.
Right wing propoganda. There are times tariffs are a bad idea and times they're a good one, there's no economic unified field theory. Now might be a time it's a good idea. I'm up for a trade war anyway; I'd as soon fight wars with money as with money and blood. We're at war with other nations now over wealth and we're losing because we're not fighting back.

Funny how conservatives are willing to fight wars with poor men's blood but not with rich men's money.
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:58 PM
 
1,735 posts, read 4,139,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Anyone that thinks tariffs are great right now should read up on the Smoot Hawley tariff Act of 1930 and how it contributed to going from a recession into the Great Depression.
I guess you missed the part about other countries having trade tariffs against our exports.
Free trade is anything but fair trade. Other countries profit while our country suffers.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:17 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,029,157 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Right wing propoganda. There are times tariffs are a bad idea and times they're a good one, there's no economic unified field theory. Now might be a time it's a good idea. I'm up for a trade war anyway; I'd as soon fight wars with money as with money and blood. We're at war with other nations now over wealth and we're losing because we're not fighting back.

Funny how conservatives are willing to fight wars with poor men's blood but not with rich men's money.

Right wing propaganda? You'll have to do better than that. Read the history, the results speak for themselves.

http://www.mackinac.org/archives/1998/sp1998-01.pdf

page 6 and 7
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Old 02-07-2009, 03:02 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,160 posts, read 18,142,618 times
Reputation: 9886
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Right wing propaganda? You'll have to do better than that. Read the history, the results speak for themselves.

http://www.mackinac.org/archives/1998/sp1998-01.pdf

page 6 and 7

You'll have to do better than a link to more propoganda from a right-wing think tank. When accused of spreading propoganda you defend yourself by spreading more, clever boy. Taking one from the Goebbels play book, eh?
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