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Old 02-28-2009, 10:29 AM
 
2,197 posts, read 6,594,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
It's just sour people who can't get over having a Black for President posting nonsense.
Why bring race into it? Is it not possible to discuss someone's actions without making it all about skin color? Once that enters into it, it's impossible to have a rational, intellectual discussion about something completely color blind, like the stock market.
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:05 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,305 posts, read 11,815,250 times
Reputation: 8038
I think people who blame Obama for the economic crisis are probably aware that they are consciously lying - after all it's rather absurd to think he could have travelled back in time to cause it.

However they may feel inside that the end justifies the means - lying about him is necessary to get people up in arms about his policies, which they believe are steering us in the wrong direction. They're frightened about the possibility US becoming more "socialist" ..... which can be even scarier for Christian fundamentalists, who may believe Satan himself is taking over, and that the President might be the Antichrist or at least one of the dread creatures featured in the Book of Revelation.

Unfortunately the way they came by such beliefs in the first place is by preachers playing fast and loose with the truth ..... the preachers believed that the end justified the means ...... dishonesty begets more dishonesty, and ultimately an inability to tell fact from fiction.
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:32 PM
 
2,197 posts, read 6,594,651 times
Reputation: 1684
Race and religion-- neither one have any relevance to a business debate. But this has stopped being a business debate, or even one tethered to facts, so why keep this thread open?
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:53 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,305 posts, read 11,815,250 times
Reputation: 8038
Fair enough, I'll edit out the religion:
Quote:
I think people who blame Obama for the economic crisis are probably aware that they are consciously lying - after all it's rather absurd to think he could have travelled back in time to cause it.

However they may feel inside that the end justifies the means - lying about him is necessary to get people up in arms about his policies, which they believe are steering us in the wrong direction. They're frightened about the possibility of the US becoming more "socialist" and so will try to associate him with disaster, implying that he caused our woes.
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
897 posts, read 2,211,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
When the Democrats took over the US House/ Senate the Dow was above 12,000. Today it's barely above 7,100.

I think Bush is looking better every day for giving 6 years of a great economy and a record stock market. Obama is looking more like a 2nd Carter term
He gave you six great years of an economy. So you know bush was in office for 8 years. What happen to the 2 years your not counting???? Oh, by the way if it was 6 great year than why were there only 4 million jobs created in 8 years. His dad had 6 million jobs created and he was only in office for 4 years. How about adjusted for inflation that 14,000 climb that the stock market had was only 10,000. So that was lower than the peak in 2001 during Clinton admin.
Bush will go down in history as the worst president for economics.
Obama has just made it over a month in office we all need to give him more time to see what will happen. No matter what happen all of us must recognize he is the guy trying to clean up a 75 trillion dollar mess. If you think he is doing a bad job than I suggest you run for office and give it a try.
So far he hired the Clinton Administration so I am disappointed. He also hire people that created the mess so he is going to have a tough time succeeding.
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Fort Myers Fl
2,305 posts, read 2,630,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Thanks for this response. It's amazing how easily rumors and myths get started. It's just sour people who can't get over having a Black for President posting nonsense. I am no fan of Obama, but blaming him for the stock market decline is laughable at best.

The DOW began its decline from 14,000 long before Obama took office. Has anyone forgotten that? Anybody who actually trades stocks would understand the progression of a market cycle.

Unfortunately, here we are dealing with internet armchair experts who probably have never traded stocks before.
I trade stocks for a living. Have been since 92. And traders do not like what they see going on right now with our government. Most of us believe in free market capitalism and do not like government interferance. I can pretty much gaurentee if this administration would just step back a little things would turn around. You have no idea how much private capital is sitting on the sidelines right now waiting to be used. But when noone knows the rules from day to day and when rules are made that are anti buisness the money will just stay right where it is.

I feel the first country to get there economy going positive again will be the winner of alot of that capital. And raising taxes on anyone does not put you in the lead to win.
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:11 PM
 
Location: IN
20,170 posts, read 34,503,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigr View Post

I feel the first country to get there economy going positive again will be the winner of alot of that capital. And raising taxes on anyone does not put you in the lead to win.
The tax rates for the wealthiest 2% will reset in 2011 to the Clinton-era rates. It has been said time and time again.
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,717,966 times
Reputation: 976
The DOW consists of an arithmetical operation on the price/earnings information from only 30 stocks. The DOW was created by two guys who worked for the Wall Street Journal. One of their last names was Dow, the other was Jones. These two guys came up with an extremely volitale index to help sell newspapers. The numbers in the DOW mean nothing. They are completely bogus. The only thing you can glean from those numbers is that when it increases: the aveage prices of those 30 stocks when normalized for earnings, is going up. And vice-versa when it goes down. My advice: ignore the DOW. Focus instead on the Wilshire and Russell indexes.
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Old 03-01-2009, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Fort Myers Fl
2,305 posts, read 2,630,359 times
Reputation: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
The tax rates for the wealthiest 2% will reset in 2011 to the Clinton-era rates. It has been said time and time again.
I am very well aware of that. But in the 90's there were not so many players in the global expansion. We need to keep our tax rates lower than the competition. If we want to bring these jobs back to the USA we need to give a corporation incentive to do so. The wealthiest 2% are alot of the owners and executives of these companies.

I am certainly not in the upper 2% but I do understand what the implications are on higher taxes of the wealthy and buisnesses.
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Old 03-01-2009, 01:42 PM
 
8,649 posts, read 14,877,279 times
Reputation: 4563
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigr View Post
I trade stocks for a living. Have been since 92. And traders do not like what they see going on right now with our government. Most of us believe in free market capitalism and do not like government interferance. I can pretty much gaurentee if this administration would just step back a little things would turn around. You have no idea how much private capital is sitting on the sidelines right now waiting to be used. But when noone knows the rules from day to day and when rules are made that are anti buisness the money will just stay right where it is.

I feel the first country to get there economy going positive again will be the winner of alot of that capital. And raising taxes on anyone does not put you in the lead to win.
You just said what I've heard on the news too. Obama needs to listen also.
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