U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Thread summary:

American economy in bad shape, Americanís not making anything, no manufacturing base, America importing everything from China, outsourcing, made in China

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-26-2009, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,095 posts, read 23,001,641 times
Reputation: 7957

Advertisements

You think it's fair that employees who no longer work for a company are still collecting a paycheck from the company? That's what's going on with the UAW and American auto companies. Sweet deal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-26-2009, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Washington State
389 posts, read 926,690 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
You think it's fair that employees who no longer work for a company are still collecting a paycheck from the company? That's what's going on with the UAW and American auto companies. Sweet deal.
YES, it's fair that employees are able to retire and live and collect dividends from their investment. You must not believe in the stock market. Employees make investments into a company, and they see the returns on these investments when they retire.

I don't think you get what's going on here, Sailordave... Okay, try to follow along, I'll explain this.

The average price of a new vehicle sells for about 28K (and some change). We'll use whole numbers here because at this time in my day, I've normally been in bed for the last two hours, so I'm pretty tired... anywho..

So we've got:
Sale's Price: $28,000

The average cost to make a vehicle (this is according to UAW AND Ford/Chrysler/GM's own reports) are around $2800, including legacy costs. INCLUDING legacy costs. So that's TEN PERCENT of the cost of the average vehicle.

That leaves 90% missing... well okay, dealerships have to make money, but they can't make more than a few thousand off of each vehicle. So let's say they make around $2800/vehicle.

So now we're at 20% of the vehicle's cost. Where's the rest of the money going?

Let's say transportation costs are higher now and take up $5600/vehicle (that's an insane amount, but let's run with it just for fark's sake). That's another 20% of the cost. So now we're at 40%.

But all transportation costs, worker costs, and dealership profits are taken into account now. And we're at 40%.

Well, marketing takes up some money, so let's say marketing is 10%, too, so now we're at 50% of the vehicle's costs...

Ooh! Parts! Parts cost money, but not much since most car companies buy parts that are made in other countries... still, let's assume it's about $2800/vehicle. Now we're at 60% of the car's price.

WHERE is that other 40% going? WHERE? To management. AND THEY CAN'T LIVE OFF OF FORTY PERCENT?!

If you are making something and it only costs you TEN PERCENT of what you sell it for, and your company STILL can't turn a profit... you are DOING IT WRONG.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2009, 10:57 PM
 
17,752 posts, read 15,053,616 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticPhoenix View Post
You DON'T have the ability to fix the economy, though. Neither do I. If EITHER of us did, you think we'd be talking on teh intarwebs?

My point is that none of us can come up with a simple answer as to why the economy is in the shiatter because there isn't one... none of us are smart enough, and not even the economists with tons of degrees can figure it out... do you think you or I, Joe Average, could possibly figure it out?
Hi ArcticPhoenix,

That's a sham. That is like saying the war lords don't know how to have a plan for peace. They don't want peace in the first place. This economy is a golden opportunity for capital over the productive economy aka those that sit on imperishable cash can wait for everyone else to sellout.
All economics is is a bunch of commodities in proportion to another, how easy they are to produce, and how much people want them. Its far from rocket science.
Prices across the board are dropping, That means money is shrinking in proportion to everything else. When silver mines were discovered in Peru a few hundred years ago silver used as money in Europe at that time dropped in value because there was more of it. Fiat dollars are the easiest thing to create out of all the other goods and services. Growing corn is immensely harder. The only explanation for having too much money or too little circulating in the economy is an intentional act by those who have the power to create and destroy money.
However many of these people don't want that because they can make a killing buying for pennies on the dollar. I understand economics enough to see thats obvious.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2009, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Washington State
389 posts, read 926,690 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi ArcticPhoenix,

That's a sham. That is like saying the war lords don't know how to have a plan for peace. They don't want peace in the first place. This economy is a golden opportunity for capital over the productive economy aka those that sit on imperishable cash can wait for everyone else to sellout.
All economics is is a bunch of commodities in proportion to another, how easy they are to produce, and how much people want them. Its far from rocket science.
Prices across the board are dropping, That means money is shrinking in proportion to everything else. When silver mines were discovered in Peru a few hundred years ago silver used as money in Europe at that time dropped in value because there was more of it. Fiat dollars are the easiest thing to create out of all the other goods and services. Growing corn is immensely harder. The only explanation for having too much money or too little circulating in the economy is an intentional act by those who have the power to create and destroy money.
However many of these people don't want that because they can make a killing buying for pennies on the dollar. I understand economics enough to see thats obvious.
But economics aren't quite as simple as that. Yes, they have some simple elements, but the specifics and particulars of economics are FAR more advanced than you're letting on. We both know that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2009, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Virginia
931 posts, read 3,412,998 times
Reputation: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticPhoenix View Post
Sure I can! If my boss needs me and values me, he'll give me the raise I'm demanding. It isn't unprofessional. Well, depending on how you do it, it CAN be unprofessional, but telling your boss you won't work for appropriate wages, in and of itself, isn't unprofessional.
Why wouldn't you just find another job? Why would you want to work for someone who doesn't value you as much as you value yourself? You'd want to continue working there, and have to beg and demand for raises? I wouldn't...

I agree. Unfortunately, businesses that run inefficiently are pretty common now, and that is certainly helping to drag them down. It's okay, though, the govt. will bail them out... How dare anyone take consequences for their actions?!
There's nothing I hate more than a bunch of liberals and socialism, but this is basically the issue - "Two big to fail" - If we let them fail, there will be a huge financial distress and a lot of people will lose their jobs, but if we don't let them fail and face consequences, there is no reason why they should stop making risky business decisions. I say let them fail though, let a financial disruption/distress occur and let the strong companies survive.


If they're still making money off of my work, then yes, they still owe me.

Some businesses ARE cyclical. However, the banking industry (like the one I was referencing specifically) isn't as cyclical as other industries.


Okay... without representation, how does that happen? If nobody will pay you a fair wage, how do you go about getting that fair wage? Go back to school? Okay, good luck with tuition and good luck getting a loan for it now too.
Well if you went to school part-time, it wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully you'd have some savings, which could pay for additional education, where you wouldn't have to take out a loan or stop working.
///
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2009, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Washington State
389 posts, read 926,690 times
Reputation: 249
Hi, Oleo.. I think you didn't highlight your responses to my post, so I'll try to answer what you wrote... bear with me.

Quote:
Why wouldn't you just find another job? Why would you want to work for someone who doesn't value you as much as you value yourself? You'd want to continue working there, and have to beg and demand for raises? I wouldn't...
Because a job is a job... and any source of income is better than NO source of income, particularly if you enjoy the job you are doing, or if it's the only skill or one of the few skills you have. Or if you have a family to take care of. Or if it's one of the only games in town. Ad infinum.

Quote:
There's nothing I hate more than a bunch of liberals and socialism, but this is basically the issue - "Two big to fail" - If we let them fail, there will be a huge financial distress and a lot of people will lose their jobs, but if we don't let them fail and face consequences, there is no reason why they should stop making risky business decisions. I say let them fail though, let a financial disruption/distress occur and let the strong companies survive.


If they're still making money off of my work, then yes, they still owe me.
I agree, let them fail... and I'm a "liberal" (but not a socialist). And, retirement is like receiving payment for an investment. You invested your time, this is the reward for your investment... retirement.

But maybe some people want to work until they die. As for me, I want to retire and enjoy my time with my grandchildren.

Quote:
Well if you went to school part-time, it wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully you'd have some savings, which could pay for additional education, where you wouldn't have to take out a loan or stop working.
If you went to school part time. But if you have a family to care for, you can't exactly do that. And you're assuming that someone would have money saved for this, but how can you save when you AREN'T BEING PAID A FAIR WAGE?!?!?!?!

Good God, this is simple stuff. If you BARELY make enough to make ends meet, you aren't going to be able to save money to go to school, especially not when something along the lines of a health problem happens, particularly since, if you DON'T have a union or are run by a shiatty company or both don't give medical insurance.

Logic. People need it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2009, 11:08 PM
 
812 posts, read 2,081,054 times
Reputation: 467
the economy is bad partly because your economy is a pyramid scheme. everyone knows it's a crazy teeter-totter, the downside of capitalism ending in easy exploitation.

you pay millions to celebrities and people who run and catch balls. you expect a mcdonalds worker to show up all smiles and shine when his/her pay could barely afford a place to live, let alone decent transportation to and from work etc.

take for example, south korea. taking a peek at how others do things differently can give you a new perspective. they take into account the pay and living conditions of those on the lowest strata as well-just common sense as well as japan.

another example in being sober, they don't pay astronomical amounts to their celebrities though they certainly could. they are also treated as "employees" whose job is to entertain. they are held accountable and responsible just like anyone else, not as gods on a pedestal. of course their is admiration, fans etc but i think they have a much more realistic view of life.

americans are unrealistic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2009, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Washington State
389 posts, read 926,690 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaana View Post
the economy is bad partly because your economy is a pyramid scheme. everyone knows it's a crazy teeter-totter, the downside of capitalism ending in easy exploitation.

you pay millions to celebrities and people who run and catch balls. you expect a mcdonalds worker to show up all smiles and shine when his/her pay could barely afford a place to live, let alone decent transportation to and from work etc.

take for example, south korea. taking a peek at how others do things differently can give you a new perspective. they take into account the pay and living conditions of those on the lowest strata as well-just common sense as well as japan.

another example in being sober, they don't pay astronomical amounts to their celebrities though they certainly could. they are also treated as "employees" whose job is to entertain. they are held accountable and responsible just like anyone else, not as gods on a pedestal. of course their is admiration, fans etc but i think they have a much more realistic view of life.

americans are unrealistic.
If you love pina coladas and dancing in the rain, I may just have to marry you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2009, 11:23 PM
 
812 posts, read 2,081,054 times
Reputation: 467
ironicly, i think it's technology that is going to eventually save the united states and the world. looking totally to the past isn't the answer either. as robotics and more efficient methods of production increase, the better overall conditions for employees will ensue and a higher quality of life. eventually.

ironicly, when humans are needed and used less as a "commodity."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2009, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Southern California Mountains
563 posts, read 1,221,889 times
Reputation: 456
The US still makes great sand cars and Harleys. Harley Davidson hasn't sold out have they?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top