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Thread summary:

American economy in bad shape, Americanís not making anything, no manufacturing base, America importing everything from China, outsourcing, made in China

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Old 02-27-2009, 03:23 PM
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Can Americans Produce Anything of High Quality?

5th NAHBS : Indianapolis, IN - 2009 Show Special (http://www.handmadebicycleshow.com/index_01.htm - broken link)
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:27 PM
Location: Washington State
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Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
That is for labor. You have not accounted for materials.

Nor have you accounted for Research and Development of new models.

Nor have you accounted for facility maintenence or facility construction costs.

Nor normal utility costs

Nor taxes

Nor repayment of debt on issued stocks and bonds


Your numbers don't add up
Read further down through my entire post. Yes, I did include for materials. And the remaining 40% that I came up with would all go into utility costs, etc.

Regardless, their costs for producing each vehicle are only 10% per vehicle, and this is according to their own sources. The other 90% goes where?\

I'm sorry, but the bottom line is, if labor only takes up 10% of your cost per item that you sell, you are running your business wrong. There is WAY too much egregious waste, way too much greed, and way too much mismanagement.

And I feel I have leeway to speak here, as my aunt is a higher up with GM.
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:29 PM
Location: San Jose, CA
7,677 posts, read 24,987,505 times
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Originally Posted by DezertGirl View Post
Hate motorcycles? Gee!
My point is they are made in the US, right? Many people seem to think they're an OK bike...they have quite a fan following, it seems.
So you approve of the US-made sand cars? That's good to know.
Love the Mustang. As usual, the F150 and the 'Stang are keeping Ford afloat...
I drive a Ford. Not wild about motorcycles, but I can appreciate a good one. Harleys are trash.
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:10 PM
Location: Southern California Mountains
563 posts, read 1,220,798 times
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Originally Posted by sonarrat View Post
I drive a Ford. Not wild about motorcycles, but I can appreciate a good one. Harleys are trash.
I just bought a 1955 Tbird and a 1984 loaded 'Stang GT 5.0 supercharged convertible (sorry, can't help myself!). Fords are fine.
You couldn't catch me on a bike, but I don't put down any make or model. My SO has a Kawasaki drag bike. Me race it? Never. He's the one with the kahunas.
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:23 PM
Location: Southern California Mountains
563 posts, read 1,220,798 times
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Oh, what about pharmasueticals? Abbott Vascular is located in Temecula. They make pacemakers and angioplasty thingies.
Amen to the guitars! Americans can make quality music, too...big band, blues, rock, jazz, hiphop, even rap...all USA originals.
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Old 02-27-2009, 06:03 PM
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some of it is high quality but not everything made in america is high quality.

i can only go by my personal experiences. i remember having to use crest toothpaste and it sucked like blue puddy. i never felt my teeth were very clean and i didn't understand how the advertisements would hype such products the way they do. people were much more brand conscious in the made in america days simply because most stuff was crap. there was also a lot more disparity between the haves and have-nots.

i can recall you either had to shop at the mall which was very expensive or you went to a place like kmart which the clothes were embarassingly not at all stylish. even that has improved now. i remember having to use crap like noxema for my face and every american brand that was advertised almost never lived up to it's claims. there was junk like suave and clairol herbal essences and there was nothing herbal about , but even these formulations have improved due to time, knowledge and technology, not just because they are made in america. also prell messed up my hair very badly, that was some really rough stuff. i recall my dad always having to fix his ford or chevrolet. the cars were not reliable. i remember only a few households could afford a color tv or even vcr and if you wanted reliable electronics it was expensive or it was very cheap and absolutely horrible and a joke. it's like you had to pay a lot to get anything that was remotely real. you can get things today that are less price-wise but still are relatively fair or even good.

i just remember overall, life was rougher. i disagree wholeheartedly that things were better back in the good 'ol days.

i think those who are so about made in america is due to their nationalism and patriotism than anything because it's not an honest evaluation.

for example, only the most wealthy back then could afford a grand piano. you can actually purchase grand pianos from china now that are affordable. you have to research which factories they come from as some have better reputations and skilled workers then others though, just like any product.

my neighbor is thrilled with her grand piano and she says it's comparable to some of the more expensive ones she's played and she's a music teacher. so it's all relative.
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Old 02-27-2009, 06:29 PM
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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Bourbon. Country Western music. Black gospel music. Some movies.

Those are the US export products my European relatives like the most.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:32 PM
17,749 posts, read 15,034,268 times
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Originally Posted by ArcticPhoenix View Post
But economics aren't quite as simple as that. Yes, they have some simple elements, but the specifics and particulars of economics are FAR more advanced than you're letting on. We both know that.

Hi ArcticPhoenix,

I certainly meant what I said and I have spent a lot of time on the subject. The problem with economics is the capital and labor component has an incentive to deceive the consumer public. If its complex, its usually a deception. Economics at its core, is rather simple. The complexity of this situation is because the banking cartel designed it that way. The fundamental flaw can be seen everywhere. They made debt the money supply aka monetized debt and its caused an apparent paradox some people cannot seem to solve. Every time people as a whole try to pay down debt they seem to have less and less money until they cannot pay down the debt. Thats because the debt they are paying off is money that will not circulate back to them.

However its a swindle, not basic economics. What we do know is they will somehow try to increase their market and eliminate their competition. The complexity is in the scheme that they have devised. Yet I know they will attempt to devise it from basic economic principle.

The interest of the dealers, however, in any particular branch of trade or manufactures, is always in some respects different from, and even opposite to, that of the public. To widen the market and to narrow the competition, is always the interest of the dealers. To widen the market may frequently be agreeable enough to the interest of the public; but to narrow the competition must always be against it, and can serve only to enable the dealers, by raising their profits above what they naturally would be, to levy, for their own benefit, an absurd tax upon the rest of their fellow-citizens. The proposal of any new law or regulation of commerce which comes from this order, ought always to be listened to with great precaution, and ought never to be adopted till after having been long and carefully examined, not only with the most scrupulous, but with the most suspicious attention. It comes from an order of men, whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it.
-wealth of nations.
We need to spend more:

Consumers Keep Recovery at Bay - WSJ.com
U.S. manufacturing activity got a bit of a reprieve in January, but steep declines in consumer spending suggest talk of a recovery in that sector is premature.
The Institute for Supply Management on Monday said manufacturing activity contracted in January, but at a slower rate than in December, based on a survey of suppliers in 18 manufacturing industries. Activity rose to 35.6 from December's 32.9, which was the weakest since ISM records began in 1948, as new orders and production showed particular improvement. But activity in the sector overall remained below 50 -- the level indicating growth -- for the ...

We need to spend less:
WashPost: Consumer debt grows at alarming pace - Washington Post- msnbc.com
According to the latest figures from the Federal Reserve, America's consumer debt has topped $2 trillion for the first time, continuing what debt experts view as an alarming surge in recent years.

How can both things be alarming?

We have less debt and less money:
U.S. consumer credit debt falls - Baltimore Business Journal:
Consumer credit card debt in the U.S. fell in November for the first time in 2008 due to reduced personal income, lower credit limits and higher credit-card interest rates, according to the Federal Reserve.
Gee I wonder why? Bank credit is the money supply. Pay off the debt and we have absolutely no money in circulation.

Since money always appears in every transaction and is itself heavily tampered with it is in a state of an apparent paradox so it seems complicated. However the banks have made money to be their loans which creates an essential market for debt. They have used this to eliminate the competition since it becomes unsustainable and they created the Fed to insulate them from the impact while the small competition of regional banks dies off.

If for example a pharmaceutical company has a drug they want to sell they will want to expand their market and prevent competition. They could try to create policies under the guise of "consumer protection" to prevent generic competition and yet perhaps have the FDA bypass procedure to get the needed drug to market sooner and may use complex and clever means to do so but it is not in the realm of economic in particular but in general.
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Old 02-28-2009, 05:58 AM
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,473 posts, read 13,417,482 times
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We make great porn.
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Old 02-28-2009, 08:59 PM
3,440 posts, read 7,050,509 times
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Originally Posted by leaana View Post
you need a fair balance between socialism and capitalism for an economy to run efficiently and to prevent exploitation from either side. without capitalism, you have no incentive to better yourself or opportunities. without socialism, you have easy exploitation which ends in predominantly the same result-unhappy employees and social problems.

not that that there is one easy answer to the problem but i can't count how many times i've been turned down for jobs that i was qualified for or could be trained for simply due to the prejudices of the one who happened to interview me. it's an unspoken rule that we all know in the back of our heads that you won't be hired if you are not liked as well. this is not supposed to happen but it does, then you end up with the negatives of everything that clannish or cliqueishness causes and eventual mediocre to poor production and marginalizing because the system is open to all types of exploitation from all directions and unethical behavior. you have bad employees that don't deserve the position they have, as well as those who are denied due to human prejudice or quirks. i can't recall how many times i've run into horrible customer service AS WELL as instances where too much was asked or expected of the employee too. this is a very light example of the 'evils' of capitalism that people refer to. that being said, you have unethical behavior and those that will take advantage if everything is handed to them on a silver platter. the solution is what will prevent bringing out the worst faults in people-those that unfairly take advantage. that will be a multi-solution, not just one.

i recall an article where customer service agents were constantly propositioned because the employees were pushed to be too "friendly", for example. like they were expected to sell themselves. that's viewing employees as a 'commodity' and another example of unrealism. it's human error that is constantly the problem, the more humans are out of the picture and more things become "computerized", the better it will be. i am absolutely convinced of this. technology has no bias, it is pure efficiency and honesty; interestingly ending in more humanity and fairness. i would rather put my qualifications into a computer and let it decide if i qualify for something than some human riddled with thier own issues and prejudice decide my own fate! and let me succeed or fail on my own merits and not some other human as if they have a right to jjudge and determine my own destiny. disgusting..

bottomline, the world is still too primitive. lol
I know how you feel. This is why I work for myself now. I remember growing up if I worked too hard and made other workers look bad the workers would be angry with me. Other times I would see special treatment (did not bother me) if another worker was attractive or well liked. What can you do; it's just human nature. We all do it, think about it, your more prone to give a ride to an attractive hitch hiker then somebody who looks like a scrub.

Either way, a lot of people don't seem to find this out until its late into the game; it's not so simple just to have a degree and good grades.
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