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Old 03-04-2009, 05:01 AM
 
705 posts, read 1,144,005 times
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I've always found this interesting too regarding AIG/CIA connections. It's a bit lengthy but interesting

SPECIAL REPORTS Last Updated: Sep 23rd, 2008 - 00:42:36

AIG is a ‘special case’
By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer


Sep 23, 2008, 00:18

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(WMR) -- The U.S. government’s bail out of insurance giant American International Group (AIG) comes as no surprise to intelligence community insiders. In fact, AIG has been at the center of a number of CIA operations for decades.

The federal government’s $85 billion “bridge” loan to AIG essentially makes the United States government an 80 percent stakeholder in AIG, a move that will prevent external players from peering into AIG’s myriad intelligence operations on behalf of the CIA, according to an insider who has followed AIG’s overseas operations for a number of years.

As attorney general of New York State and as governor, Eliot Spitzer made AIG a prime target for his investigations. That ended when Spitzer was brought down in a sex scandal involving a prostitution ring.

AIG’s chairman, before he was forced to resign amid scandal, was Maurice “Hank” Greenberg. In 1962, Greenberg was hired by AIG’s founder, Cornelius Vander Starr, the uncle of President Bill Clinton prosecutor Kenneth Starr, as the chief of AIG’s North American operations. Greenberg eventually took over as AIG’s chairman, as well as assuming the chairmanship and CEO position of Starr’s other firm, C. V. Starr and Company. Greenberg retained control of C. V. Starr and Company after having stepped down as AIG’s chairman in 2005.

Greenberg, a close friend of Henry Kissinger, was considered a potential CIA director in 1995 after James Woolsey resigned. Perhaps it was Greenberg’s past connections to Whitewater Independent Counsel Starr’s uncle Cornelius that dissuaded Clinton from giving Greenberg the keys to Langley’s top executive washroom.

However, Greenberg and AIG had a long association with the CIA, according to WMR’s sources. AIG’s intelligence operations in Asia even pre-date the CIA and its predecessor, the wartime Office of Strategic Services (OSS).i Greenberg has served as a member of the National Intelligence Council.

Cornelius V. Starr started AIG as “American Asiatic Underwriters” in 1919 in Shanghai. Starr moved AIG from Shanghai to New York after the Communists came to power in 1949. Ironically, AIG is back in China through its ownership of People’s Insurance Company of China. AIG also owns AIG Korea Insurance.

Ever since the days of Ken Starr’s uncle, Cornelius, AIG has, on behalf of U.S. intelligence, kept tabs on rising players on the Asia political scene, particularly in China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and other countries. The quid pro quo for AIG is that it has weathered the storms generated by Spitzer and the global financial meltdown with the strong support from the U.S. government in return for permitting the mining of data from AIG’s insurance files by the CIA.

Greenberg has maintained close relations with the Beijing leadership over the years. However, his dealings with the CIA are also well known to the Chinese intelligence services. In fact, Chinese intelligence is aware that Greenberg has allowed AIG to be used as a major “placement” operation for a number of the CIA’s Asia-based non-official cover (NOC) officers.

The CIA’s analysts who concentrate on Asia have also enjoyed routine access to a huge AIG database maintained in San Francisco. AIG’s new building in Hong Kong was intended to be a major outpost for CIA agents assigned the China “beat.” However, Chinese intelligence succeeded in thoroughly wiring the building with surveillance systems and AIG’s China operations were blown. Chinese intelligence could not believe how sloppy Greenberg and the CIA were in handling the Hong Kong operation.

With the U.S. government now in control of AIG, the Bush family will breathe particularly easier. On June 20, 2005, WMR reported the following concerning the connection between Greenberg and the Bushes:

“The investigations of the secret Bush money tranches are coming to the fore as New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer focuses in on the scandal involving Maurice “Hank” Greenberg and the inflation of the worth of American International Group (AIG) through shady affiliates, including AIG reinsurer Coral Re of Barbados. Greenberg was the CEO of AIG but was forced to step down amid the Spitzer probe. AIG was founded from Asia Life/CV Starr, a Shanghai-based international import/export and insurance firm founded in 1919 by Cornelius V. Starr, an Office of Strategic Services (OSS) operative in Southeast Asia during World War II. AIG’s largest shareholder is Starr International Company (SICO), an off-shore corporation incorporated in Panama with headquarters in Bermuda. Kenneth Starr, the independent counsel who prosecuted President Clinton, is the nephew of Cornelius Starr. Greenberg inherited the CEO job and Chairmanship from Starr as well as the $3.5 billion Starr Foundation.”
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Old 03-04-2009, 05:07 AM
 
96 posts, read 335,107 times
Reputation: 51
They are not shrinking their business. If you read into the recent news, there was a massive restructuring of the property and casualty companies within AIG. In fact, many insurance experts are touting their recent restructure as making them more powerful in comparison to their competitors. The P&C companies are the lifeblood of the organization and bring in billions of dollars to the company. In addition, their Asian life (AIA) and other life (ALICO) divisions were given to the government as form of partial repayment of the intial loan. AIG, as a company name, may go away, but the profitible divisions that rule the company will still remain and contribute to the payoff of the loan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyP View Post
Hi Gwynned,

I think the bigger story with AIG is that they are dramatically shrinking the business at a time when they are "borrowing" (currently $163 billion) from the taxpayers. A much smaller AIG is never, ever going to be able to return $163 billion to the taxpayers. And there sale of assets is not happening either. I seldom agree with Rogers(he always talks his own book) but in this case he is spot on. AIG is already dead, they just don't know it yet.
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Old 03-04-2009, 05:26 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,186,842 times
Reputation: 14506
Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisDD View Post
Greed drove this AIG mess and we are now paying for it. But, I blame everyone(the person who bought the house they could not afford, the mortgage broker selling them it, the Wall Street firm risking billions).
We are all to blame.
Sorry but this hits a nerve with me.. the claim that "We are all to blame." I don't see how it is true, it seems like a rationalization for this crazy amount of wealth that we are redistributing. What about financial institutions who took on a safe amount of debt and risk? Or the entire Prairie/Great Plains states, who saw no housing bubble? There were millions of people who didn't behave any differently during the credit bubble. The people gorging on excess were universities (raising tuition due to limitless student debt), people who bought real estate on the coasts, Wall Street in New York, high-end retail and services...

Last edited by le roi; 03-04-2009 at 06:46 AM..
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:15 AM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,026,257 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyP View Post
Hi Gwynned,

I think the bigger story with AIG is that they are dramatically shrinking the business at a time when they are "borrowing" (currently $163 billion) from the taxpayers. A much smaller AIG is never, ever going to be able to return $163 billion to the taxpayers. And there sale of assets is not happening either. I seldom agree with Rogers(he always talks his own book) but in this case he is spot on. AIG is already dead, they just don't know it yet.
Hi jimmyP,

I don't think you understand the point I was making. The argument to save all of AIG because it has useful operations is a false one. The equity should be wiped out entirely and the creditors can receive the useful remnants and take losses on the rest. They should bankrupt it and spin off the life insurance and that should go to the creditors. Useful operations may continue to operate. I have absolutely no interest in sparing investors or creditors anymore than what their investment is worth. In the interest of a what ever is still a valuable enterprise, it should continue to operate as such.


Have a look at some numbers for say caterpillar


Enterprise Value (3-Mar-09):47.35B
Market Cap (intraday):15.40B

Total Debt (mrq):35.53B


Notice the market cap against the enterprise value. Even if it had negative market cap and was bankrupt it is with respect to its financing. If CAT had no debt the full value of the enterprise would be priced at 47.35B. If the debt exceeded the enterprise value then it is up to the creditors to decide whether to reorg and retain a passive credit position, take an equity position or liquidate. Since CAT is a useful enterprise I would not see it being liquidated. If CAT owes 60 billion and is in bankruptcy it would simply be a change in ownership with a loss to creditors of about 13 billion but they still have a 47 Billion enterprise. Nothing shuts down at all. So any idea that AIG cannot operate its useful functions in bankruptcy is a farce.

Last edited by gwynedd1; 03-04-2009 at 09:28 AM..
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:32 AM
 
1,567 posts, read 2,691,426 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_ut View Post
What he is trying to say is that the part of AIG that is losing money is the part that insures other business' losses. For example if you have home owners insurance and your house burns down then AIG pays you for the cost of the house. In the same way many of the large banks have insurance on their investments and many of those investments are currently burning down forcing AIG to pay for the cost of those investments. To just let AIG go under now would be like letting say State Farm go under right after a major hurricane comes through and flattens half the city.

well i sure as **** shouldnt have to pay people with my tax money and thru inflation if a hurricane hit and state farm went down
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:33 AM
 
1,567 posts, read 2,691,426 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubber_factory View Post
Sorry but this hits a nerve with me.. the claim that "We are all to blame." I don't see how it is true, it seems like a rationalization for this crazy amount of wealth that we are redistributing. What about financial institutions who took on a safe amount of debt and risk? Or the entire Prairie/Great Plains states, who saw no housing bubble? There were millions of people who didn't behave any differently during the credit bubble. The people gorging on excess were universities (raising tuition due to limitless student debt), people who bought real estate on the coasts, Wall Street in New York, high-end retail and services...

exactly every bailout is disgusting
it does nothing but create a moral hazard
let the garbage rot
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:11 AM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,772,010 times
Reputation: 4446
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi jimmyP,

I don't think you understand the point I was making. The argument to save all of AIG because it has useful operations is a false one. The equity should be wiped out entirely and the creditors can receive the useful remnants and take losses on the rest. They should bankrupt it and spin off the life insurance and that should go to the creditors. Useful operations may continue to operate. I have absolutely no interest in sparing investors or creditors anymore than what their investment is worth. In the interest of a what ever is still a valuable enterprise, it should continue to operate as such.


Have a look at some numbers for say caterpillar


Enterprise Value (3-Mar-09):47.35B
Market Cap (intraday):15.40B

Total Debt (mrq):35.53B


Notice the market cap against the enterprise value. Even if it had negative market cap and was bankrupt it is with respect to its financing. If CAT had no debt the full value of the enterprise would be priced at 47.35B. If the debt exceeded the enterprise value then it is up to the creditors to decide whether to reorg and retain a passive credit position, take an equity position or liquidate. Since CAT is a useful enterprise I would not see it being liquidated. If CAT owes 60 billion and is in bankruptcy it would simply be a change in ownership with a loss to creditors of about 13 billion but they still have a 47 Billion enterprise. Nothing shuts down at all. So any idea that AIG cannot operate its useful functions in bankruptcy is a farce.
but AIG is an insurance business and insurance is built on trust and reputation. if the company went through bankruptcy their policyholders / customers would lose confidence and not buy insurance from them. as well, nobody knows what the losses actually are at AIG. for all intents and purposes AIG is already dead. their attempts to sell their so-called profitable divisions are floundering and they are now talking about just sticking it to the government instead.
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Old 03-05-2009, 08:46 AM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,026,257 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
but AIG is an insurance business and insurance is built on trust and reputation. if the company went through bankruptcy their policyholders / customers would lose confidence and not buy insurance from them. as well, nobody knows what the losses actually are at AIG. for all intents and purposes AIG is already dead. their attempts to sell their so-called profitable divisions are floundering and they are now talking about just sticking it to the government instead.

Hi floridasandy,

If they are not trust worthy they should not be trusted. The law are already there. We should use them in bankruptcy court. If the enterprise has value it goes to the creditor.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:04 AM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,026,257 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyP View Post
I've always found this interesting too regarding AIG/CIA connections. It's a bit lengthy but interesting

SPECIAL REPORTS Last Updated: Sep 23rd, 2008 - 00:42:36

AIG is a ‘special case’
By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer


Sep 23, 2008, 00:18

Email this article
Printer friendly page
(WMR) -- The U.S. government’s bail out of insurance giant American International Group (AIG) comes as no surprise to intelligence community insiders. In fact, AIG has been at the center of a number of CIA operations for decades.

The federal government’s $85 billion “bridge” loan to AIG essentially makes the United States government an 80 percent stakeholder in AIG, a move that will prevent external players from peering into AIG’s myriad intelligence operations on behalf of the CIA, according to an insider who has followed AIG’s overseas operations for a number of years.

As attorney general of New York State and as governor, Eliot Spitzer made AIG a prime target for his investigations. That ended when Spitzer was brought down in a sex scandal involving a prostitution ring.

AIG’s chairman, before he was forced to resign amid scandal, was Maurice “Hank” Greenberg. In 1962, Greenberg was hired by AIG’s founder, Cornelius Vander Starr, the uncle of President Bill Clinton prosecutor Kenneth Starr, as the chief of AIG’s North American operations. Greenberg eventually took over as AIG’s chairman, as well as assuming the chairmanship and CEO position of Starr’s other firm, C. V. Starr and Company. Greenberg retained control of C. V. Starr and Company after having stepped down as AIG’s chairman in 2005.

Greenberg, a close friend of Henry Kissinger, was considered a potential CIA director in 1995 after James Woolsey resigned. Perhaps it was Greenberg’s past connections to Whitewater Independent Counsel Starr’s uncle Cornelius that dissuaded Clinton from giving Greenberg the keys to Langley’s top executive washroom.

However, Greenberg and AIG had a long association with the CIA, according to WMR’s sources. AIG’s intelligence operations in Asia even pre-date the CIA and its predecessor, the wartime Office of Strategic Services (OSS).i Greenberg has served as a member of the National Intelligence Council.

Cornelius V. Starr started AIG as “American Asiatic Underwriters” in 1919 in Shanghai. Starr moved AIG from Shanghai to New York after the Communists came to power in 1949. Ironically, AIG is back in China through its ownership of People’s Insurance Company of China. AIG also owns AIG Korea Insurance.

Ever since the days of Ken Starr’s uncle, Cornelius, AIG has, on behalf of U.S. intelligence, kept tabs on rising players on the Asia political scene, particularly in China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and other countries. The quid pro quo for AIG is that it has weathered the storms generated by Spitzer and the global financial meltdown with the strong support from the U.S. government in return for permitting the mining of data from AIG’s insurance files by the CIA.

Greenberg has maintained close relations with the Beijing leadership over the years. However, his dealings with the CIA are also well known to the Chinese intelligence services. In fact, Chinese intelligence is aware that Greenberg has allowed AIG to be used as a major “placement” operation for a number of the CIA’s Asia-based non-official cover (NOC) officers.

The CIA’s analysts who concentrate on Asia have also enjoyed routine access to a huge AIG database maintained in San Francisco. AIG’s new building in Hong Kong was intended to be a major outpost for CIA agents assigned the China “beat.” However, Chinese intelligence succeeded in thoroughly wiring the building with surveillance systems and AIG’s China operations were blown. Chinese intelligence could not believe how sloppy Greenberg and the CIA were in handling the Hong Kong operation.

With the U.S. government now in control of AIG, the Bush family will breathe particularly easier. On June 20, 2005, WMR reported the following concerning the connection between Greenberg and the Bushes:

“The investigations of the secret Bush money tranches are coming to the fore as New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer focuses in on the scandal involving Maurice “Hank” Greenberg and the inflation of the worth of American International Group (AIG) through shady affiliates, including AIG reinsurer Coral Re of Barbados. Greenberg was the CEO of AIG but was forced to step down amid the Spitzer probe. AIG was founded from Asia Life/CV Starr, a Shanghai-based international import/export and insurance firm founded in 1919 by Cornelius V. Starr, an Office of Strategic Services (OSS) operative in Southeast Asia during World War II. AIG’s largest shareholder is Starr International Company (SICO), an off-shore corporation incorporated in Panama with headquarters in Bermuda. Kenneth Starr, the independent counsel who prosecuted President Clinton, is the nephew of Cornelius Starr. Greenberg inherited the CEO job and Chairmanship from Starr as well as the $3.5 billion Starr Foundation.”
Hi jimmyP,


They are in bed with everyone. AIG is nothing, try Google.


CIA enlists Google's help for spy work - Times Online
Google has been recruited by US intelligence agencies to help them better process and share information they gather about suspects.
Agencies such as the National Security Agency have bought servers on which Google-supplied search technology is used to process information gathered by networks of spies around the world.
This site will kill two birds with one stone. It will keep your searches private and will explain what Google is all about. I guess we will all have to start using under ground web proxies to have any privacy. Google was funded by a venture capital firm that also is tied to defense contracts. It also appears CIA seed money was also granted.


Scroogle Scraper
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