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Old 03-05-2009, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Weston, FL and Vero Beach, Fl
2,947 posts, read 11,958,221 times
Reputation: 2058

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News item this morning from CNN.

For the longest time I thought it imperative, above all else, that we had to save our auto industry because it was the backbone of all that the United States was about. This is the short answer. After reexamining the auto industry, I have drawn a totally different conclusion. Yes, we can live without a GM, Ford, etc. Maybe it's time to regroup and start afresh.

I don't believe the US auto industry is all that concerned with innovation or producing vehicles that are environmentally friendly. Moreover, the greater concern is the top tier securing their "golden parachutes."

I am not an expert, but would appreciate your views on the US auto industry and what needs to happen. Remember, they have had numerous bailouts and not just in this current administration.

Thank you.
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Old 03-05-2009, 08:39 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,264,441 times
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The states that manufacture domestic autos (Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, New York, and whomever else wants to), should form a consortium and buy any domestic automakers that are in imminent danger of failure.

Last edited by le roi; 03-05-2009 at 09:09 AM..
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:05 AM
 
Location: West, Southwest, East & Northeast
3,446 posts, read 6,461,105 times
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At least one major law firm has been working on GM's likely bankruptcy for many months. The legal costs alone for this will be over $1 Billion...and that doesn't include "if" GM actually files for bankruptcy protection, sells-off assets, etc. and restructures the business. GM's market cap is only $1.15 Billion!
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:12 AM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,062,182 times
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While it is going to be very painful, I think the only way out is bankruptcy and a total reorganization of the business and cutting it's ties with the corrupt UAW.

Ultimately a leaner, meaner car industry is going to come out of all of this.

Jeremy Clarkson said it best a few years ago about GM: "It's a pensions and health care company with the cars designed as an afterthought."

Until we can get back to being a car company that makes cars and isn't in the business of existing solely to prop up peoples viagra intake or 40 year long retirements, GM goes nowhere.
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:58 AM
 
1,738 posts, read 3,890,983 times
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Well what do you suggest? Killing our elderly? Asking people to commit suicide at 60? That seems great for the company but I doubt your labor pool would go for that......Perhaps, subsidizing the insolvency of our current retirement systems since you're doing it involuntarily already for the unemployed and more importantly, the underemployed (among which are many honda and toyota US workers, and I'm sure they thank you for that as they happily go to their at-will jobs, because of course these people are socking away 50% of their net income with their 100% net income use for COL....HAHA right!).

If you believe that an underfunded 401K in a ever inflating economy will last ya 30 years then heck wish away, you'll still pick up the tab in taxes to subsidize that insolvency, otherwise the govt lets it all go dog eat dog and these folks torch your house and hang you for having 'stuff' they could use to eat. Sounds like a great plan to me..... At-will employment is such a slippery slope it's not even funny, but hey I hear Santa's real....
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Old 03-05-2009, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
1,820 posts, read 3,907,337 times
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Get rid of the UAW and their ridiculous wages they pay people...
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:05 PM
 
3,219 posts, read 5,663,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMD67 View Post
Get rid of the UAW and their ridiculous wages they pay people...
GM needs to go out of business totally then "re-open" under different "rules".

The faster this happens the better, we as Americans can't go on giving them Billion$ of our tax Dollar$ every second.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:43 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,062,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
Well what do you suggest? Killing our elderly? Asking people to commit suicide at 60? That seems great for the company but I doubt your labor pool would go for that......Perhaps, subsidizing the insolvency of our current retirement systems since you're doing it involuntarily already for the unemployed and more importantly, the underemployed (among which are many honda and toyota US workers, and I'm sure they thank you for that as they happily go to their at-will jobs, because of course these people are socking away 50% of their net income with their 100% net income use for COL....HAHA right!).

If you believe that an underfunded 401K in a ever inflating economy will last ya 30 years then heck wish away, you'll still pick up the tab in taxes to subsidize that insolvency, otherwise the govt lets it all go dog eat dog and these folks torch your house and hang you for having 'stuff' they could use to eat. Sounds like a great plan to me..... At-will employment is such a slippery slope it's not even funny, but hey I hear Santa's real....
Well that was another suggestion Clarkson had, offing people at 65, but I digress.

Back in 1900, the life expectancy in this country was 48 years old. Now I think we are cracking close to 78 year old. Things have changed. The numbers may have added up back in 1930 or whatever when people worked for 30 years and then got a pension, because likely they were dead in five to 10 years. Social Security worked at the time because so few people lived to see it.

Now with a long lifespan it is unrealistic to work for 25 years and then be paid to not work and be unproductive for up to 50 years after you stopped working. Anyone that took 3rd grade math can add up the numbers and see that doesn't work anymore. There is nothing wrong with pensions but the math needs to be realistic. The math UAW is using is 1950's at best when we are living in 2009. In fact I think the whole country has to realize that 30-40 year long retirements are not happening unless you are a wizard financial planner.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:54 PM
 
1,738 posts, read 3,890,983 times
Reputation: 4566
You still don't get it. You complain about billions in subsidizing a firm with union labor when you STILL unwillingly give the at-will firms billions in subsidies via government safety nets to their underemployed at-will workers trying to make due on McWages. The need for retirement and health care doesn't go away just because you wrote it off your account sheet, which is the airlines-precedent you propose for GM and other car legacies, unless of course you advocate killing the unproductive of course.....

If you're gonna cut health care and retirement, if anyting you would have to actually pay out the supposedly 'outrageous and ridiculous' wages you're whining about, to make people even. Oh wait , I get it now, I see how you guys are closing out the books.... what you guys are suggesting is writing off health care and retirement off your books AND giving people pay cuts under the white collar morally bankrupt, spineless-as-a-collective, mantra of 'these rivet pushers don't do anything worth a livable wage to begin with, otherwise they would have gone to college like us the financially destitute'. Gotcha. The McJob race to the bottom, a real gem. 'I went to college and can't afford chit and have no defined benefit plan, no way in my watch a rivet pusher is gonna outearn me'....that's just tired class warfare. And after all that hate you still end up picking up the tab for the at-will joints, it's hilarious the way americans root for their own disposession
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Old 03-05-2009, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
1,820 posts, read 3,907,337 times
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hmmm .... actually, a lot of white collar workers ARE taking paycuts, so that actually isn't correct.
Know several people who work for the Real Estate industry-salaried ,office workers who are having to make huge sacrifices in their pay right now.
My husband's company is also stopping all ot and cutting salaries as well,all due to low production.
So I guess I stand strong in what I say, yes,cut the ridiculous wages. Get rid of the UAW that once was a positive thing for people,they were meant to keep jobs safe and secure.
Today they are being used as a reason to be lazy and go to work,sit in a room all day and play cards,but yet,still get paid and still be allowed to work OT. Funny.
Why shouldn't these people take cuts just as everyone else is having to do today.
I know they had to take some cuts last year,but truly, giving them $30K a year to make up for their losses for the next 3 years? Others certainly don't get that. It is RIDICULOUS.
GM needs to get rid of the UAW and revamp everything.
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