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Old 05-08-2009, 06:04 AM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,986,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stac2007 View Post
You are certainly right. Right now I wish I was a good plumber.
I know one of those that was just laid off.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:09 AM
 
14 posts, read 46,323 times
Reputation: 15
I would agree that local outsoucing and independant contracting in the IT business is useful, productive and necessary to meet some demands but for companies to commit large budgets and gauranteed yearly amounts of work to offshore entities is just another thing that is contributing to the erosion of this country. There is a huge amount of money, not to mention competitive knowledge and information, that is being sent out of this country. The money will not boost the American economy or families when it's halfway around the world. And the knowledge and infomation will eventually put a large percentage of American IT professionals out of work. There is also a lot of core business knowledge being transferred out of this country. The biggest thing that is saving most American IT people now is that the quality of what is being produced offshore in many cases is not the best, in my personal experience anyway. My work is in the support side of the IT department so my job is booming ! The metaphor I will use to explain what I do is that my group is like the street sweepers and the folks with shovels that come along at the end of a parade that has had lots of horses in it.
One last thought. Buy American, Support Americans or we are going to lose America.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:27 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,758,039 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by killer2021 View Post
I run a small online business that sells education and information products. I outsource nearly all of my labor needs which consists mostly of doing research and writing. We plan out what we need to be done then allocate that workload to various people in India. They only get paid if they do good work. If the work is not what we want or up to our standards, we send an e-mail telling them what needs to be changed. Once fixed, we pay them.

If I wasn't able to outsource my business would have probably never been able to make it. By having the ability to outsource my cost of business is 20-30 times lower than if I were to have the work done in the USA.

As a result, my business is significantly more competitive compared to other people delivering similar products to the market. If I couldn't outsource the work my business would have never made it. Also it would take me significantly longer to bring products to the market (because I would have to use more expensive labor or do it myself).

Instead of complaining about outsourcing and trying to prevent it. We should allow people to utilize it in a better fashion. If something could be done for 1/10th the cost of labor in another country and do just as good a job then we should send the job over there and use the money we saved to reinvest in the company or deliver better service to clients.
I have no problem if you outsource. Outsourcing has been happening for a long time and maybe some people do not realize that.

When labor became cheaper at other parts of the country, companies and businesses moved to the states where they could get cheaper labor, better tax breaks, etc. So in othe words some people benefited and others lost. That is the nature of businesses. They move where they can make more money.

Now, you will be demonized and made looke like the uncaring greedy business person. However, I know that if you did not do that, you may not have a business thus not be able to provide services to the customer. You may try to help your fellow citizens but you can only go so far because you must take care of you and your family.

Many people do not want to adaptable. They want to do what they like to do. Sometimes it is good to be able to adjust to the world conditions. The world is getting smaller and smaller due to communication and transportation advances.

If some people do not get with the times, they will pay the price.

You are doing the right thing. You have to take care of yourself. I am sure some of the people complaining about you outsourcing if they have to make a choice of buying a cheaper foreing car and an American made car, they will forget about buying American and will buy the foreign car.
At the end everybody in this group looks at their pockets just as you do. At that time they are not looking at the American workers making the American car.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:46 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,758,039 times
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Also, Adams Smith wrote in "The Wealth of Nations":
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.

If people realize that point there would be less aggravations. To me many people expect or demand businesses need to do thing as if they are some social support program. No, they are not. They are there to make business thus money. The customer does have influence in a business by either buying or not buying. It is a simple exchange. They business wants money and the customer wants a commodity. It is a trade. Once the trade is done, I do not see the business being obligated to the customer. It's a shared need (to get something) by both.
The customer is also talking about what is to his own advantage, not the business but they either do not realize it, do not accept it, or do not like it or something else or all of the above.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,929,185 times
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What then is left for America ? Service type jobs where you physically have to be there along with a few white collar that demand a physical presence.

The brain drain is well underway..major investments are being made in R&D but not in America.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:00 AM
 
4,172 posts, read 5,859,865 times
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US / EU also have many protectionist measures. Tens of thousands of farmers in Africa cannot even make third world wages because of farm subsidies here. When US was winning, we were in everyone's face preaching free markets. Outsourcing is a result of markets opening up - and it is here to stay as long as multinationals exist. Longer term, it makes all involved more competitive. Not just India or China win, but we do too as we can sell them more stuff. In the meantime, if you want to compete with "Rameesh", figure out something you can do better - else you are merely asking for a subsidized handout.

What I do not like is the uneven playing field our elected representatives create as a result of lobbying. We should not be subsidizing companies who then go and open up shop in other countries. We should also continue to try to open up markets in other nations and lobby to remove their trade barriers so that we can export more and get more value-added industries developed here.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,929,185 times
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But what we seem to be exporting is raw commodities.
We import finished goods.

You cannot exist on consuming without producing. Where do you get the money to consume ?
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:20 AM
 
4,172 posts, read 5,859,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
But what we seem to be exporting is raw commodities.
We import finished goods.

You cannot exist on consuming without producing. Where do you get the money to consume ?
..and unfortunately, we are also now exporting better jobs. The trend for us becoming a serviice industry has been going on for decades. Our government sinks a lot of money on wars but not education. Our industry is driven by short-term economics that sometimes depends on how the CEO's stock does. People are more interested in Americal Idol than real issues. Come elections, we are more into god/guns/gays than real issues. We are all to blame for the state we are in.

BUT the US still has phenomenal amount of ingenuity and a great system that no other country can match. "Somehow", we need to figure out to move towards higher value added industries and leave the lower end word to others. This will produce better-paying jobs and more profitable industries - till others catch up. It is going to be an ongoing struggle.

Last edited by calmdude; 05-08-2009 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:40 AM
 
Location: North Las Vegas
1,631 posts, read 3,387,234 times
Reputation: 743
Quote:
Originally Posted by killer2021 View Post
I run a small online business that sells education and information products. I outsource nearly all of my labor needs which consists mostly of doing research and writing. We plan out what we need to be done then allocate that workload to various people in India. They only get paid if they do good work. If the work is not what we want or up to our standards, we send an e-mail telling them what needs to be changed. Once fixed, we pay them.

If I wasn't able to outsource my business would have probably never been able to make it. By having the ability to outsource my cost of business is 20-30 times lower than if I were to have the work done in the USA.

As a result, my business is significantly more competitive compared to other people delivering similar products to the market. If I couldn't outsource the work my business would have never made it. Also it would take me significantly longer to bring products to the market (because I would have to use more expensive labor or do it myself).

Instead of complaining about outsourcing and trying to prevent it. We should allow people to utilize it in a better fashion. If something could be done for 1/10th the cost of labor in another country and do just as good a job then we should send the job over there and use the money we saved to reinvest in the company or deliver better service to clients.
If you can't stay in business by using labor in the US then you shouldn't be in business, it tells me that you have a business that is substandard meaning that if you can't find workers here that would work for peanuts and be bullied around you wouldn't be in business . YOU are selfish and self serving and granted folks get into business to make a life for themselves, and unfortunately that is how business in general works.

And you want folks in America to spend their money they made on your products but you don't want to employ americans. We're not good enough to work for you but we're good enough to spend our money on your product. That is so wrong

Myself and my husband are selfemployed and due to out sourcing forced us to move from a state that outsourced and now the the product is poorly made, and you can't get anyone on the line that can speak english. It's interesting how other countries can speak great english when they go for contracts but when you have a problem all of sudden they don't understand sqwatt.

Good for you, that your business is doing great, why don't you go to another country and do business.
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:14 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,758,039 times
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International trade is business where people and organizations trade commodities. Commodities does not only mean gold or a shirt. It also means labor for something.

In Killer's case he or she, sorry I do not know your gender, is outsourcing part of the labor outside. He or she is still creating business with the rest of his or her opperations.

I am currently taking a class entitled "Current economic analysis" in my MBA program I am attending.

We just covered international trade. At the end of the last class the professor made a comment. He said we covered a topic a lot of people simply do not understand and it is heavily influenced by politics. The people tend to fall for what they hear from politician have no idea how the international trade business works.
By enforcing protectionism people do not realize how the equilibrium between the supply and demand is broken and actually the customer ends up paying more. With protectionism those protected groups fill their pockets with money (because of higher prices) and those that would benefit with trade end up hurting and the customer as I wrote ends up paying higher prices.

In the business world where trade is allowed, some people will loose profits and/or jobs and other will gain profits and or job HERE in the US. The weather in the business world changes with constant changes of needs thus the demand for a commodity. The customers needs do change thus trade demands change, thus jobs tranfer from one group to another.
If we want to make sure no one looses a job we simply need to always eat the same, drive the same car, buy the same brand, etc. In other words live life exactly the same with not a speck of variation to maintain an exact demand out there. Even then a simple tornado can create havoc and maybe potatoes are not available anymore for a while so we may have to switch to something else to serve in our meal and that in turn will mean jobs are lost somewhere and created somewhere else.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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