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Old 05-08-2009, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 8,771,156 times
Reputation: 2530

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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer2021 View Post
I run a small online business that sells education and information products. I outsource nearly all of my labor needs which consists mostly of doing research and writing. We plan out what we need to be done then allocate that workload to various people in India. They only get paid if they do good work. If the work is not what we want or up to our standards, we send an e-mail telling them what needs to be changed. Once fixed, we pay them.

If I wasn't able to outsource my business would have probably never been able to make it. By having the ability to outsource my cost of business is 20-30 times lower than if I were to have the work done in the USA.

As a result, my business is significantly more competitive compared to other people delivering similar products to the market. If I couldn't outsource the work my business would have never made it. Also it would take me significantly longer to bring products to the market (because I would have to use more expensive labor or do it myself).

Instead of complaining about outsourcing and trying to prevent it. We should allow people to utilize it in a better fashion. If something could be done for 1/10th the cost of labor in another country and do just as good a job then we should send the job over there and use the money we saved to reinvest in the company or deliver better service to clients.

One question for you. What is your take from this business?
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Old 05-08-2009, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Jersey
2,165 posts, read 3,239,972 times
Reputation: 1689
I'm not sure if the OP is trolling but...

No one is entitled to employment. Everyone more or less has the right to equal access(based on qualifications/capabilities) to employment, but being employed is a privelage. I'm a college student and I have developed some business models that utilize foreign labor(I will have some employees stateside as well). As a future entrepreuner/business owner, I have every right to do whatever I feel is necessary(within legal bounds) to make my business succeed. The Plebs don't appreciate the possibilities that offshoring has opened up to entrepreuners. Without access to foreign labor, my business models wouldn't work. Quite honestly, some of posts on this thread reek of racism as well.

Last edited by TylerJAX; 05-08-2009 at 07:10 PM..
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 2,899,953 times
Reputation: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
I'm not sure if the OP is trolling but...

No one is entitled to employment. Everyone more or less has the right to equal access(based on qualifications/capabilities) to employment, but being employed is a privelage. I'm a college student and I have developed some business models that utilize foreign labor(I will have some employees stateside as well). As a future entrepreuner/business owner, I have every right to do whatever I feel is necessary(within legal bounds) to make my business succeed. The Plebs don't appreciate the possibilities that offshoring has opened up to entrepreuners. Without access to foreign labor, my business models wouldn't work. Quite honestly, some of posts on this thread reek of racism as well.
By all means more power to you, but as I've argued before, it's basically the same as using illegal immigrants. Anyhow, go ahead and use the temporary advantage. The more "entrepreneurs" that use it, the more expensive it gets... so you better jump in quick!

Meanwhile, I'd rather figure out how to make a business work using fair labor, and work on efficiency and long term competitive advantages rather than short term abuse of temporary conditions.

Maybe a nice business plan would be to teach the foreigners how to make busineses themselves from the stuff they learn from outsourcers. But then again, I think they're already figuring it out themselves. Why hassle with the middle man when they are the real factors of production. If I'm not mistaken, the banks are very excited to extend micro-loans and other loans into these regions.


-chuck22b
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:20 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,462,455 times
Reputation: 47456
dear OP
up to this point you and i have been pretty much always on the same page
up til now
now you are talking bout the plight of american labor
outresourcing avoids a lot of employer responsibility. you call everybody an independent contractor. you dodge health care and pension, lower wages, you hire illegals indirectly. and do so with a clean conscious.
americans are ok with slavery/exploitation, as long as its not them.
still friends?
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:25 PM
 
Location: The Shires
2,257 posts, read 1,724,312 times
Reputation: 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
If you're trying to grow India's economy, you can outsource labor while you watch your neighbors struggle to keep a roof over their head.

If you would rather see your family and friends prosper than people halfway across the globe, then you shouldn't outsource.

Where do your sympathies lie?
Well said!!
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Jersey
2,165 posts, read 3,239,972 times
Reputation: 1689
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b View Post
By all means more power to you, but as I've argued before, it's basically the same as using illegal immigrants. Anyhow, go ahead and use the temporary advantage. The more "entrepreneurs" that use it, the more expensive it gets... so you better jump in quick!

Meanwhile, I'd rather figure out how to make a business work using fair labor, and work on efficiency and long term competitive advantages rather than short term abuse of temporary conditions.

Maybe a nice business plan would be to teach the foreigners how to make busineses themselves from the stuff they learn from outsourcers. But then again, I think they're already figuring it out themselves. Why hassle with the middle man when they are the real factors of production. If I'm not mistaken, the banks are very excited to extend micro-loans and other loans into these regions.


-chuck22b
Fair labor? What constitutes as being "fair" can be subjective. Also, don't compare me to someone who breaks the law(hires illegal aliens). The law is far more concrete than your notions of fairness.

Last edited by TylerJAX; 05-08-2009 at 08:50 PM..
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Old 05-09-2009, 12:01 AM
 
9,112 posts, read 5,673,869 times
Reputation: 5270
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
I'm not sure if the OP is trolling but...

No one is entitled to employment. Everyone more or less has the right to equal access(based on qualifications/capabilities) to employment, but being employed is a privelage. I'm a college student and I have developed some business models that utilize foreign labor(I will have some employees stateside as well). As a future entrepreuner/business owner, I have every right to do whatever I feel is necessary(within legal bounds) to make my business succeed. The Plebs don't appreciate the possibilities that offshoring has opened up to entrepreuners. Without access to foreign labor, my business models wouldn't work. Quite honestly, some of posts on this thread reek of racism as well.
You sure can do whatever you want with your company. The thing is we have a generation (or more) of business owners, CEO's, CFO's etc that are only thinking short term (or the next quarter). Like Gordon Gecko stated, "greed is good" but also you better get while the getting is good because it won't last. Now I know things are drastically different now, but take a look back in the 50's and 60's. When our country was a superpower, your attitude would have labled you a traitor too your country. Just step back and take a look at the differences between then and now. The attitudes of our Gov't, workers, business owners etc were completely different than now. We had businesses that were 30 , 40 or more years old. Now all we see our those same companies closing the doors. Once greed took over , and buzzwords started being thrown around like "globalization", "offshoreing" etc.. the people in power started taking advantage of these things and everything started a downhill spiral to where it's gotten us today. Are these new business practices , these new foriegn policies, these new attitudes really working for us ?? Take a look around , they are ..only if you are at the top of the equation. If your a "worker bee" forget about it. We are going to become a nation of Eloi and Morlock's .... okay , that is a little excessive but I'm sure you understand what I mean.
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Old 05-09-2009, 12:22 AM
 
3,567 posts, read 7,519,872 times
Reputation: 2854
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
It's funny the OP bragged that his outsourcing of local jobs lowers his cost of business by 20-30 times. It' great for him that he gets to pocket all that money. I have never seen the savings passed on to the consumers though. The foreign-made shoes, shirt, electronics I see at the stores are not discounted to reflect the savings achieved by outsourcing of local jobs.

I am sure the individuals and businesses who outsource local jobs to foreign countries benefit a great deal. While they enjoy the 20-30 times lower business cost, their fellow Americans are homeless, unemployed and uninsured.

There are little things like the tax base. Employed people pay income taxes. They can buy things and pay sale taxes. They can pay the mortgage and keep their homes and pay property taxes. Without jobs, none of the above exists.

But who cares. Everyone is for himself, right?
There are a lot of good and bad things about outsourcing-- it's kept the world peaceful, for one thing, or possibly just delayed another reason for war-- but what ultimately pisses me off are the costs.

Nothing has gotten cheaper, I agree. Clothing, regular non name brand clothing, is more expensive now than ever. It's great for businesses, but it's clearly a model of greed. I'm a staunch capitalist, and I too would like to save some cash.

So, yes, that part of outsourcing is bad. What should have happened is a decrease in sales prices across the board, an increase in savings and investment and a corresponding increase in insurance/property ownership.

What happened instead is that retailers and wholesalers jacked up their prices to gain even more money, thus greatly disturbing the economy. People end up losing their already low-paying jobs, communities fall apart, and there's not even a net benefit to society.

The other side of this is that the cost of employing Americans has been legislated into the stratosphere. I'm sorry, but social security and medicare have got to go. Otherwise we'll never end up with affordable workers.
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Old 05-09-2009, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 2,899,953 times
Reputation: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
There are a lot of good and bad things about outsourcing-- it's kept the world peaceful, for one thing, or possibly just delayed another reason for war-- but what ultimately pisses me off are the costs.

Nothing has gotten cheaper, I agree. Clothing, regular non name brand clothing, is more expensive now than ever. It's great for businesses, but it's clearly a model of greed. I'm a staunch capitalist, and I too would like to save some cash.

So, yes, that part of outsourcing is bad. What should have happened is a decrease in sales prices across the board, an increase in savings and investment and a corresponding increase in insurance/property ownership.

What happened instead is that retailers and wholesalers jacked up their prices to gain even more money, thus greatly disturbing the economy. People end up losing their already low-paying jobs, communities fall apart, and there's not even a net benefit to society.

The other side of this is that the cost of employing Americans has been legislated into the stratosphere. I'm sorry, but social security and medicare have got to go. Otherwise we'll never end up with affordable workers.
Perhaps when China implements some sort of stronger social security and medicare... in which they are in the process of working out... we'll see their labor costs go up as the workers there start costing more, and spending more.

TylerJax,
Fair labor and fair trade relates to both parties having similar or like rules but one party is better than the other party at certain activities because of "specialization". In this case, both nations prosper as one nation is actually better at performing certain tasks rather than the other and not because of the notion of different rules sets, policies, developmental barriers, currency manipulation or some other policty or developmental stage inequality that causes a trade imbalance.

As far as hiring an illegal vs. a foreigner accross the pond? what really is the difference? The only reason either worker is "cheaper" is because they are living with a different set of rules. The illegal worker without, social security or tax numbers, and are usually cash workers, and the foreigner, likewise, without the same rules as those employed here. The only difference is physical location, but both are used to bypass the rules, policies, and regulations of the United States. So, no difference... except that one is currently quasi legal but both leverage the different rules on labor.

-chuck22b

Last edited by chuck22b; 05-09-2009 at 01:19 AM..
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Old 05-09-2009, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,982,833 times
Reputation: 4304
No, its not really that bad. I did not even bother reading the comments, I'm sure its "...no jobs...blah blah...no jobs....".

Anyhow, people like to pretend that businesses should willing make less money in order to "keep jobs here". Yeah.....no thanks. Why is it the businesses issue in the first place? How about the workers? Cut your asking wages guys.

People also like to pretend you can outsource has no limits, but that is silly. Why will india, china, etc continue to take dollars for actual goods/services if they can't do anything with those dollars? Outsourcing is only possible so long as we produce things other countries want and we do just that.

The real issue here is balanced trade, not all the nonsense that surrounds out-sourcing. Long term trade has to be balanced, there is no way around it. But short term you can have imbalances in trade that sometimes introduce instability in the global economy (Such as seen recently).
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