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Old 06-03-2009, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,018,932 times
Reputation: 4304

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Quote:
Originally Posted by f_m View Post
Why is "the basis of retirement is that one does not truly enjoy their work?" Some people just want to travel all the time without schedules, which doesn't work well with normal work schedules.
In this case why not work for a few years, and then travel for 1-2 years? Why wait until you are retired?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
In this entire thread you're equating happiness to job satisfaction. You are implying that if one just works harder then they'll be able to do their dream job.
No, I'm not equating the two, more so suggesting that enjoying your work is a necessary condition to being happy (although, not a sufficient one). Besides sleeping you spend the most time working.

And again, I'm not imply that if one just "works harder" then they will be able to do their dream job. I have suggested that people should work towards finding enjoyable employment though. Don't settle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
What I and others have been saying is that some people do not have the luxury to "work harder towards happiness" by your definition of happiness.
And what exactly stops them? Themselves. Now, people are not all born with the same abilities so in that sense some people don't have the "luxury". But, I believe most people can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
Sometimes people have to "accept a less then ideal life" for reasons that are out of their control.
There is no reason to accept a less than ideal life, you can at least work towards something better. At least you can say you tried, instead of sitting on your rear.

The issue is of course not black and white. There are many shades from dull crappy career to wonderful and fulfilling career. So perhaps you'll never make it to the ideal, but even if you get half way there you're far better off than if you just "accepted a less than ideal life".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
And I think we've already been over the fact that not everyone can do their dream job, you just seem to like ignoring it.
I have said nothing about "dream jobs" because I find the concept silly, its sorta like "my true love". If someone can only be happy doing one particular job, I'd suggest they are pretty dull.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:12 AM
 
985 posts, read 2,305,849 times
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What stops them? Ok, I'll give you an example, one of my friends, who lives in a small town, wanted to be an actor. It was her "passion" in life. However her father (a wonderful man, btw) became ill and now she must take care of him constantly instead of perusing what would make her happy. Are you suggesting she should ditch him so she doesn't have to "accept less than an ideal life?" If you think things are so simple you are seriously naive.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:13 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,018,932 times
Reputation: 4304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
What stops them? Ok, I'll give you an example, one of my friends, who lives in a small town, wanted to be an actor. It was her "passion" in life. However her father (a wonderful man, btw) became ill and now she must take care of him constantly instead of perusing what would make her happy.
She does not have to do anything, and if she is constantly taking care of him how is paying her bills? Either she has time to work (and therefore peruse acting) or there is a decent income source in which case the dad can be put in private care at least part-time.

People take care of ill and aging parents all the time and still manage to make themselves happy. This situation is not particularly unusual.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:56 AM
 
985 posts, read 2,305,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
She does not have to do anything, and if she is constantly taking care of him how is paying her bills? Either she has time to work (and therefore peruse acting) or there is a decent income source in which case the dad can be put in private care at least part-time.

People take care of ill and aging parents all the time and still manage to make themselves happy. This situation is not particularly unusual.
She works online for a few hours a week, she doesn't make that much money, and the father gets a small about of SSDI (don't ask how much because I don't know), I just know it wouldn't cover constant care. Do you have any idea how much constant care would cost? And, yeah, she's going to be able make it big as a Broadway actress in a small town
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:47 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,018,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
....Do you have any idea how much constant care would cost?
Yes, I've had multiple relatives that needed such. Its not that much. There are a lot of "mom and pop" operations where they do it out of a standard houses and take care of around 5 people. I'm in one of the most expensive areas in the country and I have a relative right now that is receiving such care for $1,500/month.

Also, if he is unable to manage his own business the state should take care of him, although that is unlikely to be as nice as the private care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
And, yeah, she's going to be able make it big as a Broadway actress in a small town
There is this thing called moving. She could move (with her dad) to the closest state school that has a decent drama department and start taking classes.

But most people don't "make it big as a Broadway actress" so having alternative careers choices in mind that can also make you happy is key.
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:54 AM
 
985 posts, read 2,305,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Yes, I've had multiple relatives that needed such. Its not that much. There are a lot of "mom and pop" operations where they do it out of a standard houses and take care of around 5 people. I'm in one of the most expensive areas in the country and I have a relative right now that is receiving such care for $1,500/month.

Also, if he is unable to manage his own business the state should take care of him, although that is unlikely to be as nice as the private care.


There is this thing called moving. She could move (with her dad) to the closest state school that has a decent drama department and start taking classes.

But most people don't "make it big as a Broadway actress" so having alternative careers choices in mind that can also make you happy is key.
They don't even have that much a month I don't know the exact number but, if they did they surely wouldn't be living in total poverty. You really think it'd be better to dump her father in a crappy state home? Wow, I'd hate to be related to you if that's the way you would treat a family member. She actually loves her dad and the guilt of that alone would make her miserable. That's not going to get her closer to "happiness." And how are they suppose to move when they have no money to move because they live literally hand to mouth? They live where they do because the cost of living is so low and they can, just barely, get by. Honestly, you posts are just telling me you have no clue what other people go through.

That said, I do agree with you that people who can would be better off following their dreams rather than being stuck in a bad job. That's exactly what I plan to do when I finish school. However, I also acknowledge that I am lucky in that regard and not everyone is able to do the same.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:08 AM
 
Location: Florida
18,371 posts, read 18,655,446 times
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There's nothing wrong with your idea,user-id.

Risk taking is exactly why some people end up with more money/better lifestyles(what they feel is better) and deserve it.
As long as Mr Murphy doesn't decide to move in with you it may work the way you want.
Most people aren't willing to take the chance so the current set up is the most popular.

What can Murphy do to ruin your plan?
Your business or job wan't provide you with enough to live currently AND give you enough excess for those couple of years off.
If you have to fall back to an employed situation you discover the same problem as above...not making enough for a few 'retired and enjoying life young" years so end up working the 'old fashioned' way.
A myriad of different medical conditions that have nothing to do with age dictates how much or how lucratively you can work or play.The older you get the more age related conditions you can add in.

We did do somewhat you're suggesting albeit in an unplanned manner.
Between 5 businesses we had months to a year "off" while finding the next one.
Sat in a coffee shop weekday mornings, joking about being retired then and would just work til we died.
Selling the last business didn't work out too well since by that time it was a fire ravaged shell.(Murphy)
Health reasons forced my husband out of a job he enjoyed at 67 so , so much for that.(Murphy)
Good planning and covering all the bases that Mr Murphy might influence may get you just what you want.Go for it......just be realistic about how life (Murphy) might interfere.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:36 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,018,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
They don't even have that much a month I don't know the exact number but, if they did they surely wouldn't be living in total poverty.
Then the problem is decades in the making. The daughter has the choice of letting her dad drag her down into poverty with him or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
You really think it'd be better to dump her father in a crappy state home? Wow, I'd hate to be related to you if that's the way you would treat a family member.
I don't know the details. If he still has a lot of time left before he is likely to die, then yes I think its better to put him in state care. The daughter will destroy her life taking care of him, I'd suggest the dad is rather selfish for even allowing her to do it in the first place.

The dad made his own bad, he needs to sleep in it. People, I think put too much weight to blood relations. But that is a different issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
And how are they suppose to move when they have no money to move because they live literally hand to mouth? They live where they do because the cost of living is so low and they can, just barely, get by. Honestly, you posts are just telling me you have no clue what other people go through.
It is not that I don't know "what other people go through", its that I don't pity people for self inflected harm.

But to be frank, the issue comes down to intelligence. This girl in question can rather easily make money from home if she put her mind to it, but this of course assumes her mind is up to the task. If I don't know a person I tend to make the assumption that they are mentally capable, at least in the average sense.

My reasoning in this thread on retirement and related topics really is directed more towards people with average or above average intelligence. People with below-average intelligence are in a real sense trapped by their own mental capacities. Although, their predicament is their own doing, there is also no way out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
However, I also acknowledge that I am lucky in that regard and not everyone is able to do the same.
But, why is not everyone able to do the same? Really only one key issue - intelligence. I've know people that had to deal with much worse situations than your friend and still triumphed.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:51 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,018,932 times
Reputation: 4304
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Your business or job wan't provide you with enough to live currently AND give you enough excess for those couple of years off.
If you have to fall back to an employed situation you discover the same problem as above...not making enough for a few 'retired and enjoying life young" years so end up working the 'old fashioned' way.
A myriad of different medical conditions that have nothing to do with age dictates how much or how lucratively you can work or play.The older you get the more age related conditions you can add in.
I'm not sure what your point is, job/health related issues will effect you in the same way whether you fellow the traditional retirement path or the path I'm suggesting.

In terms of increased health costs as you age, that is obviously something you can plan for. Personally, that is why I have a HSA instead of the traditional rip off insurance policies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Good planning and covering all the bases that Mr Murphy might influence may get you just what you want.Go for it......just be realistic about how life (Murphy) might interfere.
I think these issues are largely the same regardless of what approach you take. I'm not suggesting that one ignore the realities of getting older and not save anything for your "old age". Rather that traditional retirement planning does not make sense for many.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:54 AM
 
985 posts, read 2,305,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Then the problem is decades in the making. The daughter has the choice of letting her dad drag her down into poverty with him or not.


I don't know the details. If he still has a lot of time left before he is likely to die, then yes I think its better to put him in state care. The daughter will destroy her life taking care of him, I'd suggest the dad is rather selfish for even allowing her to do it in the first place.

The dad made his own bad, he needs to sleep in it. People, I think put too much weight to blood relations. But that is a different issue.


It is not that I don't know "what other people go through", its that I don't pity people for self inflected harm.

But to be frank, the issue comes down to intelligence. This girl in question can rather easily make money from home if she put her mind to it, but this of course assumes her mind is up to the task. If I don't know a person I tend to make the assumption that they are mentally capable, at least in the average sense.

My reasoning in this thread on retirement and related topics really is directed more towards people with average or above average intelligence. People with below-average intelligence are in a real sense trapped by their own mental capacities. Although, their predicament is their own doing, there is also no way out of it.


But, why is not everyone able to do the same? Really only one key issue - intelligence. I've know people that had to deal with much worse situations than your friend and still triumphed.
The dad has severe MS and, as a result, a boat load of medical bills how is that his own fault? She's taking care of him because she can't stand to see him suffer like that, if she just let him rot in some home she would not be happy. And how do you expect her to make tons of money when she has a limited time frame that she isn't taking care of him? Not to mention that she's exhausted from it. I'm done, your ignorance astounds me I find it pretty funny that you're judging others intelligence.
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