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Old 06-03-2009, 04:14 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,966,907 times
Reputation: 4304

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
The dad has severe MS and, as a result, a boat load of medical bills how is that his own fault?
No and that is the point of medicare. If he gets SSDI then he can qualify for medicare. The out-of-pocket costs to medicare are not all that high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
And how do you expect her to make tons of money when she has a limited time frame that she isn't taking care of him?
I never said "tons of money", I said more money. She can easily make enough to afford to put him in private care or at the very least hire a nurse part-time. $1,500/month is really kiddy money. I can think of a number of things she can do from home that require little investment that would make that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
Not to mention that she's exhausted from it. I'm done, your ignorance astounds me I find it pretty funny that your judging others intelligence.
She's exhausted, that's right. That is why she needs to come up with a better solution. My ignorance? Let me know when you get out of school. Your friend can find a better solution, she is NOT condemned as you want to make it seem.

I have also not judged in particular individuals intelligence, rather stated the obvious. Intelligence plans a role in these issues. I'm thinking about things from my point of view. I've worked in some fashion since I was 12 and I have never had trouble figuring out how to earn money. Nobody helped me with such, I was raised by total white trash.

You should have stopped at "I'm done".
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:30 AM
 
985 posts, read 2,300,348 times
Reputation: 722
I don't know if he's on medicare or not. My mom gets medicare (she's retired) and the costs out of pocket for various medications, and she doesn't have MS, seem pretty high to me. Which part of she has no money to invest did you not comprehend? You should have stopped after you admitted you don't know the whole situation and then proceeded to judge her anyways.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:42 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,966,907 times
Reputation: 4304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaye02 View Post
Which part of she has no money to invest did you not comprehend?
Is she eating beans and rice everyday? If not, then she can come up with some money to start a side business.

I've not judged the person at all, rather suggested ways she could improve her situation. You are free to think she is condemned, but the only reason why that would be the case is if she was unintelligent.

If this is the best example you can come up with I suggest you come visit the ghettos here in Los Angeles.
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,538,721 times
Reputation: 24548
Retirement is the BIG PAYOFF for years of drudgery and boredom. Very few people get to choose what they do because they need an income right now. So we take the money but don't have to like the job. Screw around with my retirement and I will more than a little upset.
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,113 posts, read 15,296,085 times
Reputation: 3661
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
The world you are going to work in and raise your family in is much different than your parents, that should be obvious. What worked for them may or may not work for you. I really don't understand why people look so much to the past, when so many things have changed. .
The major difference between the past and where we are now is that we are a materialistic society. People have to keep up w/the joneses and look where its gotten us. Tons of cc debt, lousy savings rate etc.....

What worked for my parents was to save a dime for a rainy day and live within your means. They put me through college.

Do you have a better alternative than what they did and the similar approach I'm taking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post

I don't think having kids vs not having kids is an important issue here. You can do what you want and have kids too. Of course, you should probably be a little more risk adverse if you have kids, but still children should not prevent you from doing what you want in life.
Having kids is a MAJOR issue. Financially they are EXTREMELY expensive. You change your whole life once you have them (everyone who has them knows that). However, no amount of money can bring you the happiness of having children grow and lead a successful life. I live unselfishly for my kids which brings me 100% satisfaction.

Nothing is "preventing" me from doing anything. I live a frugal but enjoyable life. If you have trouble understanding that, we'll I'm not sure what to tell you.
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,966,907 times
Reputation: 4304
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Retirement is the BIG PAYOFF for years of drudgery and boredom.

Well I suppose, I'd rather to avoid the years of drudgery and boredom though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Screw around with my retirement and I will more than a little upset.
Depending on what is funding your retirement it is quite possible that those below you will "screw around" with it. In fact you can count on it.
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,966,907 times
Reputation: 4304
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
The major difference between the past and where we are now is that we are a materialistic society. People have to keep up w/the joneses and look where its gotten us. Tons of cc debt, lousy savings rate etc.....
I think you are way off, this is not a difference at all. "Keeping up w/the Joneses" is timeless, its founded in human nature. The roaring 20's saw just as large increase in debt, although of course different in nature. How people think of debt and savings cycles, but materialism is just human nature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
Do you have a better alternative than what they did and the similar approach I'm taking?
Yes, that is after all the point of my post. You seem to be structuring your life and investments on what made sense in the past, to me that is a recipe for disaster. You are ignoring the black swan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
Having kids is a MAJOR issue. Financially they are EXTREMELY expensive. You change your whole life once you have them (everyone who has them knows that).....
I meant that they are not relevant to the issues I'm talking about. Certainly having kids involves a lot of changes in your lifestyle.

I'm not judging the way people find happiness, if having kids makes you happy that is great. My point is that people should always try to have a enjoyable and pleasant life and not put off things "for retirement". But, if your life is enjoyable and pleasant from the start then retirement in the traditional sense loses its meaning. At least, that is my position. Your focus on "choices" I don't find all that meaningful, any action you take in life is going to limit your choices later in life. By saving for retirement you are after all limiting your choices now, for the benefit of perhaps having more later.

And to say it again, I'm not saying anything about your life. Instead, I ask if your life is truly enjoyable why would you want to change it at some arbitrary age. Your response appears to be "choices", but that is problematic.
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,113 posts, read 15,296,085 times
Reputation: 3661
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post


Yes, that is after all the point of my post. You seem to be structuring your life and investments on what made sense in the past, to me that is a recipe for disaster. You are ignoring the black swan. .
absolutely not ignoring any black swan. To me I have a better chance for success if I stick to my plan than start a business. That's my opinion and so far I am happy and achieving my goals I've laid out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
I meant that they are not relevant to the issues I'm talking about. Certainly having kids involves a lot of changes in your lifestyle.

I'm not judging the way people find happiness, if having kids makes you happy that is great. My point is that people should always try to have a enjoyable and pleasant life and not put off things "for retirement"..
When you have kids (which obv by your posts you do not have) it changes you emotionally, and financially.

There is nothing wrong w/NOT having kids, however it changes your whole life and outlook. When you are a parent, your life focuses on them and not you. You cannot blindly just do what you want when you raise kids. It is a HUGE factor in your argument. I know several people who dont' have kids and their life is totally different....(again, that's your choice right or wrong)

Again, I'll say it for the umpteenth time, I wouldn't change a thing about how I've planned or what I've done. I have financial freedom, happily raising a family, & have all my basic necessities.....

I'm sorry that you still have to argue w/this....
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:32 AM
 
985 posts, read 2,300,348 times
Reputation: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Is she eating beans and rice everyday? If not, then she can come up with some money to start a side business.

I've not judged the person at all, rather suggested ways she could improve her situation. You are free to think she is condemned, but the only reason why that would be the case is if she was unintelligent.

If this is the best example you can come up with I suggest you come visit the ghettos here in Los Angeles.
Yes she's eating beans and rice, I'm not being sarcastic either. You have judged her, you've said that if she can't figure out how to get out of her situation then that she must be unintelligent. Your quote: "I've not judged the person at all, rather suggested ways she could improve her situation. You are free to think she is condemned, but the only reason why that would be the case is if she was unintelligent."
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,966,907 times
Reputation: 4304
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
absolutely not ignoring any black swan.
When you base your investment strategy on the past I think you are ignoring black swans. Also, I was not suggesting you should start a business. Not everyone wants to do such.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
When you have kids (which obv by your posts you do not have) it changes you emotionally, and financially.
You can't generalize (rationally) from your experience as a dad to everyone. Not unless you think everyone is identical to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
It is a HUGE factor in your argument. I know several people who dont' have kids and their life is totally different....(again, that's your choice right or wrong)
No, its not a huge factor. I've mentioned two things 1.) whether it makes sense to save for retirement or not, 2.) making yourself happy now instead of waiting for latter. In terms of 1.) people without kids perhaps have more to worry about than those with! In terms of 2.), well if kids make you happy then that's that. If having kids is what is going to make you happy, than making sacrifices else where makes sense. This is no different than say taking a cut in pay to do a job you truly love.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
I'm sorry that you still have to argue w/this....
Yeah sure thing. It would help if you were in fact responding to the actual issues. You just keep stating how happy you are. My question is if you are truly happy with your life why would you want to retire from it? That's the question. Not whether you are happy or not. Your only response has been that you save for "retirement" so you have "choices". But those potential choices come at the cost of concrete reduction of choices today.
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