Boeing buying Vought (and why it makes total sense) (union, sell, companies)

[eskercurve]

The news this morning: Boeing has bought Vought in South Carolina for roughly $1 billion.

Boeing news | Key lawmakers warn of Boeing no-strike ultimatum | Seattle Times Newspaper

Here's a great editorial from a former Midwesterner who now lives in Seattle:

Danny Westneat | Don't let Boeing slip away | Seattle Times Newspaper

He makes a point about Boeing leaving and why WA needs to prevent that.

It's stiff competition ... Washington is a blue collar union state and SC is a right-to-work state. Cost of labor there is likely much less than here.

And having another 787 line in SC so close to a major manufacturer makes sense - saves on fuel in having to fly a HUGE section of the plane nearly 2,000 miles from one corner of the USA to the other. Also, it brings technical know-how in a materials tech - composites - to the table (they already have extensive knowledge in application of composites in military tech, but restrictive technology transfer rules prohibit using that well of deep knowledge). Finally, it brings a troubled supplier in and prevents another large aerospace consortium - EADS - from investing in an otherwise ripe target.

Last, but certainly not least, is Boeing will have listened to their customers. They are screaming bloody murder for the strike last fall and I don't blame them. Boeing has developed a caustic relationship with their labor unions, and there's merit to both sides and their issues. The strike cost Boeing $2 billion. That could have built a new factory in SC no problem, WITHOUT the worry about future strikes and having a smooth supply chain.

He also makes a good point that not only Seattle, but other towns around here, are sorely lacking in insight as to what is a real priority - keeping WA state competitive. Instead we're focusing on ... plastic bag taxes ... and shopping carts ... . All will be for naught if THE biggest employer in the region ups and puts a shoe in the door somewhere else.

It's funny in a perverse sort of way ... a decade ago we were worried about Chinese and Indians taking our jobs. Now it's ... Southern USA'ers.


On a personal note, as an engineer working for Boeing and living in the Pacific NW, I would say this... economically, for me, it makes a LOT more sense if I were to live in SC since a salary of $75,000 goes a LOT longer there and in King County or Snohomish County, where average salaries are to the tune of $50-77k. Home prices are MUCH cheaper there. And if lots of highly skilled and knowledgable people move into the area, schools will improve and other businesses will spring up.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Seattle area. The nature is beautiful, the town is lively, and highly educated, and the quality of life is wonderful. But leaders in WA will be sorely mistaken if they think I am in an unstoppable love affair with it.

My recommendations for WA leaders and the union:
- Get back to the table with Boeing and start listening again. Be the catalyst for a mutually beneficial working relationship.
- Give up the right to strike for 10 years in exchange for 10 years of employment guarantees and that any additional 787 line is in Everett.
- Lower the tax rate on Boeing for 3 years so they recoup the loss of additional taxes and penalties they have to pay to airlines.
- Boeing promises to design, develop, and build a successor to the 737 in Puget Sound in exchange for lower taxes and incentives for supporting businesses (materials, manufacturing, suppliers, etc) so a mega-site can be located here.

Thoughts?

[drjones96]

Yeah financially it makes sense. But just because it's a right to work state doesn't necessarily mean there will be no unions. Kansas is a right to work but there are unions at every aircraft plant here. It may mean they have less power because workers can cross the line and the only thing they face is a little ridicule from the other workers but it still creates financial issues for the company when they go on strike.

On one hand I'd like to see it happen. I've turned down the possibility of working for Boeing in Seattle several times....I'm just not going to move that far away...nor to a place like Seattle. SC would be closer to my family. And also I'm a Southerner at heart so I'd fit in better...LOL

On the other I really would feel for the folks that would be shafted by the loss of jobs in WA. Boeing wouldn't pay for relo for everybody...no way. And even if they would it's likely going to still be a stretch for some of them. They have houses to sell in a crap housing market and are looking at either staying and trying to find another job or moving at a loss. Either way they lose. For you it may be a good deal because it sounds like you'd be willing to jump....but not everybody is...

[scuba steve]

The IAM represents Vought at that plant in Charleston, for what it's worth. And it's not like Boeing would just shut down the plant in Everett. IMO this has more to do with having more control over the supply chain with the possibility for more later.

[North Beach Person]

A Vought product:

[drjones96]

Vought has a very long history in aviation.

[hindsight2020]

The good ol Crusader/Corsair lines. LOL That's not the present day Vought. That's like saying current day Boeing made the B-52 (my office). Yeah right. These companies are shells of their more novel past. And their labor behavior is gallactically different than when these case study products were produced.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by hindsight2020

The good ol Crusader/Corsair lines. LOL That's not the present day Vought. That's like saying current day Boeing made the B-52 (my office). Yeah right. These companies are shells of their more novel past. And their labor behavior is gallactically different than when these case study products were produced.

Yeah, I know. Just wanted to show what Vought once was.

[drjones96]

Originally Posted by hindsight2020

The good ol Crusader/Corsair lines. LOL That's not the present day Vought. That's like saying current day Boeing made the B-52 (my office). Yeah right. These companies are shells of their more novel past. And their labor behavior is gallactically different than when these case study products were produced.

Was in a meeting with some Lockheed guys discussing a proposed RFP for an unmanned hypersonic jet that would do a similar job as the SR-71 once did. One guy said, "...well we did it in the 60's so we should be able to do it better today." Another engineer who was a bit older and wiser said, " We did not design the SR-71....your grandfather did."

They went to the moon....we haven't been back since.

[myrc60]

Originally Posted by drjones96

Yeah financially it makes sense. But just because it's a right to work state doesn't necessarily mean there will be no unions.

Originally Posted by scuba steve

The IAM represents Vought at that plant in Charleston, for what it's worth. And it's not like Boeing would just shut down the plant in Everett. IMO this has more to do with having more control over the supply chain with the possibility for more later.

SC doesn't regulate much; a google search for worker unions only turns up IBEW and Postal in Greenville and for Charleston not many more. As far as I know the state is non-union. It is one reason our wages are still so low but I doubt union will ever be successful in this state. You could always come to our state forum and ask those that are more knowledgeable than I because I could just be confused.

[le roi]

South Carolina is not "non union" - It is right-to-work.

But yes, there is strong anti-union sentiment there.