How the Middle Class has become Globalizations designated losers. (loan, union, complaint)

[big daryle]

Originally Posted by John23

As a 31 year old, I started noticing the scam back in the 90's. Things didn't seem "right".

I think the 25-35 generation started going backwards in highschool. Basically imprisoned and unable to leave. Then sold all this stuff along the way, with all these "experts", self esteem "experts", "counselors", a cavalcade of experts that either told you everything was ok, or they wanted your money.

You make some very good points. If it got anywhere near as bad economically as it did during the Great Depression, the suicide rate for people in their 20's and 30's would go through the roof, especially since many of them no longer have a strong belief in religious systems that can get them through those tough times.

[jimmyP]

Globalization has always been merely a redistribution of wealth from rich countries to poor. The only fair trade is among nations at like stages of development. But the enmass globalization has enriched the bankers and corporations while denigrating the lifestyle of the middle class. Beginning in the late 70's and early 80's they set out on a path to replace the loss of jobs and stagnation of middle class wages with cheap easy credit. People could extend car loans to 5 years and buy homes with no money down. Credit cards became the norm. All this so people didn't realize they were losing. A thirty year credit bubble that finally burst. And why? Because for 60% of americans, they haven't had wage increases, in real terms, in 30 years.

[tallrick]

Originally Posted by big daryle

You make some very good points. If it got anywhere near as bad economically as it did during the Great Depression, the suicide rate for people in their 20's and 30's would go through the roof, especially since many of them no longer have a strong belief in religious systems that can get them through those tough times.

Perhaps instead of killing themselves, they could get together and take some oligarchs or their associates along for the ride?

[floridasandy]

Originally Posted by JMadison

OK, great. So we see the problem.

What's to be done about it?

i think that these should be the first steps in the right direction:

“bank holiday”, to begin next Friday: close suspect banks including all of the biggest that were subjected to the wimpy “stress test”. Spend the weekend going through the books and then on Monday begin to resolve the insolvent, to prosecute the banksters for fraud, and to retrieve from them their outsized bonuses financed by the public.

Second, there is every reason to suspect that the banks that have repaid TARP money and those making payments on loans from the Fed are still massively insolvent at any true valuation of the toxic waste still on their balance sheets. Recent reported profit in the financial sector is window-dressing, designed to fuel the irrationally exuberant stock market bubble. This will allow traders and other employees to cash in their stock options to recover some of the losses they incurred last year, even as bonuses are boosted for this year. Indeed, the main reason for returning the borrowed funds is to escape controls on executive salaries and bonuses. And, finally, it provides some important PR to counteract the growing anger over the financial bailouts. Only the foolish or those with some dog in the hunt will believe that the banksters have really managed to restore health to the financial sector as they CONTINUE TO DO WHAT THEY DID TO CAUSE THE CRISIS.

Last but not least, the Fed’s “profits” are based on an infinitesimally small fraction of its ramped-up operations—its liquidity facilities (that also include discount window loans and currency swaps with other central banks, purchases of commercial paper and financing for investors in asset-backed securities). It has also spent $1.75 trillion buying bad assets, with any losses on those excluded from the profits numbers. The government’s profits also exclude current and expected spending on the rest of its reported $23.7 trillion dollar commitment to the financial bailout and fiscal stimulus package. The failure of just one medium-sized bank could easily wipe out the entire $14 billion of profits that has attracted so much notice. (See also Dean Baker on the government’s “profits”)

It is ironic that Euroland’s regulators are calling for much more radical steps than Washington is willing to take. German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy are calling for more regulation and for limits on executive compensation even as the Obama administration continues to argue that such limits would constrain the financial sector’s ability to retain the “best and the brightest”. If the bozos that created this crisis are the best that Wall Street can find, it would be better to shut down the US financial system than to keep them in charge. It is doubly ironic that Nigeria (a country that normally would not come immediately to mind as a role model) has actually charged the leadership of five of its major banks with crimes. Each of these banks had received government money in a bailout, and the CEOs stand accused of “fraud, giving loans to fake companies, lending to businesses they had a personal interest in and conspiring with stockbrokers to drive up share prices.” (randall wray)

[WheredoIlive?]

30 years ago you earned enough from a bachelors or masters to be able to build a downpayment for a home. I think this point has become lost in the media, when they talk about better jobs or green jobs. Almost any job 30 years ago was enough to build real savings. It didnt really matter where interest rates were, or what the FED was doing. Almost everyone had a normal mortgage in the 70's and 80's (20% down, payments in line with income). Also there was a lot of job predictability that supported the notion of buying a home.

Here is the fact of the matter, jobs do not make anyone rich. Either you have money to invest or start your own business, but wages basically have stagnated and or dropped. Also you are right jobs were far more stable.

-Realize that home buying has become an illusion for some of gen x, y. The support that existed 30 years for buying a home isnt there. It might be much cheaper to rent than to buy a home, even if you pinpointed the exact bottom of home prices in a desirable area. Timing home prices is silly if you dont have stable income to support it.

Agree. I think unless you have the cash income to outright buy a house or 50% of it, being enslaved to a bank, with the resultant home repairs, mounting interest rates is a recipie for disaster.

I dont think america will turn into zimbabwe or somalia. Our infrastructure is too great. The key is dont get in over your head with debt. Like paying retail, if you can find it online cheaper. Or buying it on the first day, vs later. People waste a ridiculous amount of money on all that. Trim entertainment costs down to the bone.

I buy everything used and or off the internet. I am trying to figure out how to buy food cheaper. Ie when my ditigal camera broke, I bought one JUST LIKE IT for 30 bucks off of ebay instead of a new one for 200 dollars.

Our infrastructure is not that great anymore, tehy have been doing reports of it failing. The grade it got was a "D". That is a problem.

Ive looked at pictures of China, and Middle East, some of them are building areas that outdistant the most Modern American city.

U.S. infrastructure gets a 'D' - engineers - Jan. 28, 2009

[Boompa]

The middle class are victims of Phil Gramm and NeoConomics. Over the past decade much of their wealth has been transfered to the top 1%.

[WheredoIlive?]

Originally Posted by John23

As a 31 year old, I started noticing the scam back in the 90's. Things didn't seem "right".

I think the 25-35 generation started going backwards in highschool. Basically imprisoned and unable to leave. Then sold all this stuff along the way, with all these "experts", self esteem "experts", "counselors", a cavalcade of experts that either told you everything was ok, or they wanted your money.

I am 41.

I believe college has become a racket, rather then a true place for learning...they sell to careers that dont even exsist anymore. One can learn without a college now, especially without the internet. The licensure via degree stuff keeps the system going. I wish the days were around where one could take the bar exam with no law school required.

Public education dumbs down the population more then teaching real skills that can lead to success in career place. Go to vocational school and learn trade you can fall back on. If I had high school to do over, I would have done that, and then gone to college if I had chosen to.

I remember how much college cost even in the late 80s and how they had their hand constantly out, even to apply for each teaching job, cost me 5 bucks for them to send the records to the school, and I thought it was a complete and utter scam.

High school counselors and the like, do not tell young people what it is really like out there to make a living. I know I was left in the dark until I had to learn the truth the hard way. All the "Believe and you will achieve" books, never offered real concrete real world advice.

My money for college would have been better spent on a small house in my high school community or on opening a business.

[WheredoIlive?]

Originally Posted by jimmyP

Globalization has always been merely a redistribution of wealth from rich countries to poor. The only fair trade is among nations at like stages of development. But the enmass globalization has enriched the bankers and corporations while denigrating the lifestyle of the middle class. Beginning in the late 70's and early 80's they set out on a path to replace the loss of jobs and stagnation of middle class wages with cheap easy credit. People could extend car loans to 5 years and buy homes with no money down. Credit cards became the norm. All this so people didn't realize they were losing. A thirty year credit bubble that finally burst. And why? Because for 60% of americans, they haven't had wage increases, in real terms, in 30 years.

You are quite accurate. Actually all the talk of redistributing the money to the POOR/or poor nations, and "ending poverty as we know it" by Bono, Hollywood actors, Tony Blair, the World Economic Forum, the United Nations, is the biggest scam on the planet. Example of one of those organizations pushing this:

Universal Education | End Poverty 2015 (http://www.endpoverty2015.org/goals/universal-education - broken link)


Think back to history class and how Mao and Lenin redistributed the wealth, and see where it all went. Think about how the bankers just managed to clean out the till here in the bail-outs.

The free credit debacle was to speed up the demise.

[WheredoIlive?]

Originally Posted by big daryle

You make some very good points. If it got anywhere near as bad economically as it did during the Great Depression, the suicide rate for people in their 20's and 30's would go through the roof, especially since many of them no longer have a strong belief in religious systems that can get them through those tough times.

If we sink into a Depression where food is lacking and you see soup lines all over the place, it is going to be worse then the 1930s.

Back then society still was very agriculturally based. People could grow and shoot some of their own food. People knew how to live off the land more. The population wasnt as high...USA population has doubled since 1950 a lone.

You are right that strong religous beliefs kept people going more then too.

[beachmel]

It would be interesting to see what would happen to our economy if people learned to be more self-sufficient, wouldn't it? From my perspective, I see our U.S. citizens doing this to ourselves. We complain about our taxes, the cost of living, etc., yet continue to buy things we don't need and pay people to do things for us that we (most of us) are perfectly capable of doing for ourselves. We buy into the world of commercialism and allow our kids to have so many things that they "want", simply because they saw it on television, Johnnie next door has it, etc. Adults do the same thing. They see that the neighbors have a new car, a 64" television set....watch television commercials that say, '"Buy now and make no payments until 2010...AND no interest!!"'.....then they run out and buy it.....even though they have a perfectly good "one" at home. It's like we're miserable and buying to try to find happiness. Why do people NEED 2 homes? A brand new car? A huge television set that takes up 1/2 of their living room wall? An electric dishwasher.....when most of their meals come pre-made out of a box or can? .....A fancy, double-oven stove, even though they do most of their cooking in the microwave!? LOL Nonsense....pure nonsense. I see people working two jobs, both commuting 50 miles away or more, borrowing money to put in a $30,000 kitchen that they're never going to use. They have no "staples" in their cupboards....no spices, flour, baking powder, etc....gorgeous stainless steel appliances, mixing bowls (for looks?) and they don't cook! These same people hire everything done at their homes because they either don't know how to do it or are just too darn busy to do it themselves. That second income (and the subsequent taxes that come out of it) is just more money for the government. If you don't think so....just think about all of the taxes being generated on that income. Every person you're paying to make your meals, mow your lawn, unclog your toilet, fix your car, wash your windows, etc., is paying taxes on that money.....AGAIN. If we want the government to stop wasting so much money, learn to manage more wisely, stop giving it to them. Stop having to own so many things ya don't "need" and stop paying people to do things you can do for yourself!

I know it sounds weird to some people....but we save sooooo much money by only having one of us work while the other's job is to do everything we'd be paying someone else to do! LOL Yeah, what a concept, huh? just weird.