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The rice-eaters of the world are having their own nasty brush with reality now too, with food riots breaking out in various locations around the globe. Perhaps we can get some of those starving optimists to post their thoughts here about the bright future?
government corruption, the rush to biofuels, higher fertilizer prices (due to the increased natural gas price) and unfree markets are responsible for the current outbreak of food riots as grain and rice prices skyrocket. http://mooreresearchcenter.net/pdf/rr.pdf then again, this has occurred before in the early and late 70's and we appeared to have survived that crisis just fine...
So do I, but I also see PLENTY who fit my description.
I have one of each. Our son is a self starter and gets things done with minimal outside help. Our daughter is a dreamer who will never finish anything she begins, regardless of the amount of assistance. They both have the same parents.
Jazzlover, I'm sure your generation had its share of slackers, too, and if your view is so out-dated, then what accounts for the young people you've admitted to knowing who are reliable and persistent? Believe it or not, you are not the only person in the world who believes in hard work & responsibility, and your condescending self-righteousness (i.e., "...all of my belongings fit in the back of a pickup, but I didn't owe a nickel to anyone.") is, frankly, obnoxious and offensive.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 04-17-2008 at 10:21 PM..
I did work my way through college (class of '91), and it was a long and difficult few years. I ended up with about $8k worth of student loans (the money I had banked working in high school didn't cover as much as I'd hoped when tuition at the state school I attended rose dramatically during my last two years), which I paid off a few years after graduation. Why does it matter?
Addendum: your earlier post about Sallie Mae defaults reminded me that about a month ago I received a phone call from a "collection agency representing Sallie Mae" for unpaid student loans. I pulled out my documentation and immediately called Sallie Mae to confirm pay-off. The rep had no idea who was calling me, and I received no further calls. It was very weird!
Last edited by formercalifornian; 04-17-2008 at 10:53 PM..
I was curious as to your experiences and viewpoint. It sounds like you weren't quite self sufficient, but at least made an effort not to get too far into debt. I wanted to see where you fit in to the big picture to understand where you are coming from. <br />
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I would, however, encourage you to look at your posts from a third party point of view. You may not agree with Jazzlover's view of the world, but that's no reason to tell him he can't speak his mind. I happen to enjoy his posts, but if they aren't your cup of tea, by all means, please ignore them.<br />
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As a side note, while I was in school, I saw quite a few people getting free rides from parents. I was a bit jealous at the time, but over time most of those people turned out to be the ones who used their house as an ATM and are now paying the price. The ones who has to bust their ***** to make ends meet generally did better over the long run.
Last edited by sterlinggirl; 04-17-2008 at 11:33 PM..
Reason: added last paragraph
Sterling, Jazzlover is an interesting and articulate poster; however, he often paints younger generations in a very negative way, and I chose to take issue with that in my previous post. He fully admits that he knows reliable, hard-working young people, yet puts more emphasis on those who eschew responsibility, as if irresponsible behavior is a new & universal thing.
Furthermore, in no way did I imply that Jazzlover shouldn't speak his mind. I simply expressed my opinion about his comments. On the other hand, you seem to imply that I shouldn't speak my mind. I don't get it. People have been arguing back and forth, sometimes quite aggressively, for the past 55 pages of this thread, but I'm supposed to ignore a post I find terribly offensive. Why? This is a public forum that is designed to encourage debate, and it would be a tragedy to let it become a monologue.
As far as my university experience is concerned, I still don't understand what my personal situation has to do with any of this. It is an unfortunate turn of events that most college students are completely unable to work their way through school as I did. My entire education cost less than $30k, and today it would cost upwards of $80k...at a fairly inexpensive state school. It is highly unlikely that my part-time job and internships would come even close to covering those bills, even if I had saved every penny I'd received from birth. Young people who take education loans, or rely on help from parents, are not necessarily slackers. In fact, part of the reason I was able to pay my way through college was because my parents allowed me to continue living at home rent-free and provided me with a car for commuting to class and work. As you pointed out, I was hardly self-sufficient, but I was a hard worker and grateful for the assistance I received. And, I was hardly unique.
I work with young people everyday, and I am constantly impressed with them. They are conscientious, responsible, considerate, resilient people, and I strongly disagree with Jazzlover's attempts to portray them as otherwise. I will not apologize for coming to their defense!
Note for the moderator (Hi Mike!) who will probably come after me for being off-topic: I touched on the topic of inflation by referring to rising college costs...at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 04-18-2008 at 12:44 AM..
Also, Bob, whatever happened to that "quaint" idea of kids working after school and during summers to earn some of the money that they need for college? I was doing that from age 13 on, all the way through college (I attended a small state college, I might add). I graduated from college without a student loan. Somehow, without a degree from a fancy college, and without a huge student loan to pay off for it, I have managed to function quite well in American society. Working all of those summers when I was a kid didn't hurt me, either. Now, it seems that mostly what you see is a bunch of "mall-rat" teenagers who don't even try to get their first job until they graduate from college--if and when they graduate. Small wonder many of them have no clue how to manage their finances, keep from going bankrupt, or get and hold a decent job. They DO seem to know, however, how to spend their parents' (often borrowed) money pretty well to keep themselves entertained all of the way through secondary school and college (and often beyond).
That's utter BS. At least at my school (Arizona State), most students work at least part time and go to school at the same time. A lot of people here work full time. In fact, I know people who work so much they hardly have any time to concentrate on their school work, and are always unavailable when it comes time to meet for group projects. I'm lucky because I have a full ride scholarship. I've had some summer jobs too, including working at Wal-Mart.
Sterling, Jazzlover is an interesting and articulate poster; however, he often paints younger generations in a very negative way, and I chose to take issue with that in my previous post. He fully admits that he knows reliable, hard-working young people, yet puts more emphasis on those who eschew responsibility, as if irresponsible behavior is a new & universal thing.
Furthermore, in no way did I imply that Jazzlover shouldn't speak his mind. I simply expressed my opinion about his comments. On the other hand, you seem to imply that I shouldn't speak my mind. I don't get it. People have been arguing back and forth, sometimes quite aggressively, for the past 55 pages of this thread, but I'm supposed to ignore a post I find terribly offensive. Why? This is a public forum that is designed to encourage debate, and it would be a tragedy to let it become a monologue.
As far as my university experience is concerned, I still don't understand what my personal situation has to do with any of this. It is an unfortunate turn of events that most college students are completely unable to work their way through school as I did. My entire education cost less than $30k, and today it would cost upwards of $80k...at a fairly inexpensive state school...and it is unlikely that my part-time job and internships would come even close to covering those bills, even if I had saved every penny I'd received from birth. Young people who take education loans, or rely on help from parents, are not necessarily slackers. In fact, part of the reason I was able to pay my way through college was because my parents allowed me to continue living at home rent-free and provided me with a car for the commute. As you pointed out, I was hardly self-sufficient, but I was a hard worker and grateful for the assistance I received. And, I was hardly unique.
I work with young people everyday, and I am constantly impressed with them. They are conscientious, responsible, considerate, resilient people, and I strongly disagree with Jazzlover's attempts to portray them as otherwise. I will not apologize for coming to their defense!
Note for the moderator (Hi Mike!) who will probably come after me for being off-topic: I touched on the topic of inflation by referring to rising college costs...at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Formercalifornian, you are absolutely correct! Rep point headed your way! The cost of attending college has risen exponentially in recent years. Short of living at home with the parents and working full time, and going to the cheapest school available (and spending the first two years at a community college instead of all four years at University), there is no way you can possibly "work your way" through college ending up with no debt unless if you get significant scholarships. Formercalifornian, I encourage you to keep speaking your mind on this forum and don't let yourself be bullied.
Jazzlover, I think you have a wealth of practical experience and information and are a tremendous asset to this forum when you stick to the facts-- you know a lot about agriculture, mining and gas operations, transportation, rural Colorado geography, Colorado highways, real estate and land usage, climate, regional history, among other subjects. On these practical subjects, you definitely know what you're talking about, and some of these subjects you might even be an authority. Problem is, when you start straying too far from the facts and venturing in the realm of opinion, it becomes a whole different story. Please continue to speak your mind, but don't forget, you're not the only intelligent person on this board, and you're not the only one with an opinion. As the saying goes, opinions are like ***'es; everybody has one....
whatever happened to that "quaint" idea of kids working after school and during summers to earn some of the money that they need for college? I was doing that from age 13 on, all the way through college (I attended a small state college, I might add). I graduated from college without a student loan. Somehow, without a degree from a fancy college, and without a huge student loan to pay off for it, I have managed to function quite well in American society. Working all of those summers when I was a kid didn't hurt me, either. Now, it seems that mostly what you see is a bunch of "mall-rat" teenagers who don't even try to get their first job until they graduate from college--if and when they graduate. Small wonder many of them have no clue how to manage their finances, keep from going bankrupt, or get and hold a decent job. They DO seem to know, however, how to spend their parents' (often borrowed) money pretty well to keep themselves entertained all of the way through secondary school and college (and often beyond).
I'm in the same boat as you, though you put your wheel to the grindstone at age 13 and I had to wait until I was 14 since that was the legal age to start working in Pennsylvania. Although I never graduated from college, I paid for all of my own college expenses for the years I attended. Later I paid for my own tuition to learn computer programming. So in that regard, we are two peas in a pod. Apparently it worked out really well for both of us. I'd do it that way again if I had to do it all over, and I'm guessing that you would too. However, that doesn't mean that it's the right way or the best way for anyone else. For better or worse, it's a different world today and kids are growing up facing different pressures than we faced back in the good old days. So give em some slack and recognize that there are alot of good kids out there, even though they choose to travel a different path than you and I travelled. They are the ones who will have to deal with the mess that we're talking about in this thread, created by our baby boomer generation, brought up in the good old days.
Last edited by CosmicWizard; 04-18-2008 at 08:15 AM..
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