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No they arent. When work dries up, the first people to go are on the line. Blue collar workers are essential to product production, and when there is no demand for production, they are axed. Construction companies laid off millions of hard hats, but I bet they kept their management teams, secretaries, and accountants. White collar people are essential to business function, and cannot just be cut (unless their jobs are duplicated or unneccessary), however, there is not a single blue collar worker neccessary when there is no work to be done.
This is completely false, not only are blue collared workers suffering from far higher unemployment rates, and have been pretty much forever, but they are also always the highest percentage of layoffs in every down turn. Everyone knows the line gets the ax first nine times out of ten.
No its not.
And thus we have the problem...it's called 'corruption'...for if there is no product to sell, what are the people behind the desks doing?
Shuffling junk bonds? Trading worthless stock? And that's the enviornment that created this melt down...non productive paper shuffling employees trading worthless money on the stock exchange....thus the economic melt down...
(why do you think GM, Ford, and Chrysler were having issues, and all claimed bancrupsty, cause they were top heavy...they have sense had to go back and
totally revamp how they do business...and manage...their way, is what made the companies unable to compete with Foreign auto makers..giving ceos millions in bonuses, while nothing was being produced...nough said)
And that's why the businesses that are still functioning did it the right way..
And the business that are closed, followed your model above...basic economics....
Last edited by Time and Space; 03-18-2010 at 10:15 AM..
"Construction companies laid off millions of hard hats, but I bet they kept their management teams, secretaries, and accountants. "
They're being bailed out by the government. They're reporting profits entirely due to the expanded NOL carrybacks in the stimulus bill. The workers have been laid off. The management will be kept together and paid well while they wait to acquire land before the next cycle, if they haven't already.
Same with Wall Street. Goldman Sachs received 18 billion dollars from the government in the AIG payoff and paid all but 2 billion dollars to the top management in bonuses.
And thus we have the problem...it's called 'corruption'...for if there is no product to sell, what are the people behind the desks doing?
Companies still have to file paperwork, do taxes, answer phones, take care of customers, and make business decisions whether the assembly line is going or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space
Shuffling junk bonds? Trading worthless stock? And that's the enviornment that created this melt down...non productive paper shuffling employees trading worthless money on the stock exchange....thus the economic melt down...
Most "paper shuffling" employees are very productive. I "shuffle" papers all day as you would say, but if I stopped doing my job, my company would either need to replace me, or they would be in some serious hot water. The only time they wouldnt "need" my job function is if they completely folded. However, we can lay off a driver any time when business is slow, his function is no longer needed if there is no work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space
(why do you think GM, Ford, and Chrysler were having issues, and all claimed bancrupsty, cause they were top heavy...they have sense had to go back and
totally revamp how they do business...and manage...their way, is what made the companies unable to compete with Foreign auto makers..giving ceos millions in bonuses, while nothing was being produced...nough said)
Actually the biggest complaints from the auto companies were that the unions negotiated far more in benefits for the hard hats then they ever produced, and therefore, drove the company in to the ground.
"Construction companies laid off millions of hard hats, but I bet they kept their management teams, secretaries, and accountants. "
They're being bailed out by the government. They're reporting profits entirely due to the expanded NOL carrybacks in the stimulus bill. The workers have been laid off. The management will be kept together and paid well while they wait to acquire land before the next cycle, if they haven't already.
Same with Wall Street. Goldman Sachs received 18 billion dollars from the government in the AIG payoff and paid all but 2 billion dollars to the top management in bonuses.
More corruption...
And I like the way you illustrated something for us...that I would like to add to...
Corporations want you to believe that they thrive in a free enterprise market...But funny thing is, as you illustrate above...corporations are indeed 'socialist'....
In that they 'They privatize their profits, but socialize their losses'....
That's a quote from another poster on here....but it's true....Corporations depend on goverment credits and bailouts as much as someone in line waiting for food stamps...
Its corruption...and it's the business model that is sinking America...
Corporations gained access to the government through powerful lobbyist and many are appointed seats, and in turn influence legistlation that allows for unfavorible business laws to be passed that protect them...
That's scary...what do you call it when corporations merge with the government...Corportism?
We don't live in a free enterprise society anymore...
More corruption...
That's a quote from another poster on here....but it's true....Corporations depend on goverment credits and bailouts as much as someone in line waiting for food stamps...
Actually, my friend, its more then just the obvious. Walmart has been shifting its medical costs and its poor wages off on the tax payer for decades (in the form of subsidized medicine, food stamps and housing). And Walmart is just the face of this phenomenon. Most every employer of low end service jobs is doing exactly the same thing.
Walmart has recently made it a point to talk about how they provide medical to all of their employees, but really, how many of their employees can afford it? I make atleast 1.5 times the average Walmart employee, and if my company didnt pick up 100% of a basic medical plan, I wouldnt have coverage at all.
Actually, my friend, its more then just the obvious. Walmart has been shifting its medical costs and its poor wages off on the tax payer for decades (in the form of subsidized medicine, food stamps and housing). And Walmart is just the face of this phenomenon. Most every employer of low end service jobs is doing exactly the same thing.
Walmart has recently made it a point to talk about how they provide medical to all of their employees, but really, how many of their employees can afford it? I make atleast 1.5 times the average Walmart employee, and if my company didnt pick up 100% of a basic medical plan, I wouldnt have coverage at all.
Yes, you are correct...
And here's what bugs me about Rush L....
He's always harping about how the government wants to take over private interprise...
Does he not realize that the private interprise has already tooken over the government?...
The line between the two is blurred now...(and to casual readers, no I'm not refering to mom and pop hardware store, the 1950's model, I'm refering to brokerage firms, and publically traded companies)
First can the stat describe one who is 'uneducated' vs 'a educated person'?
Did you even read it? It states clearly how its measuring education.
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Originally Posted by Time and Space
All I'm saying is in the real world, I see the non essential jobs go first...
Are you under the impression that engineering, system admin, network admin, etc etc are non-essential jobs?
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Originally Posted by Time and Space
And the basic food, water, shelter jobs, the essential ones, are the ones that are steady....
Although food is "essential", it is not both at the quality and level we eat it. When money gets tight people will also eat less of things like fresh fruit, wine, beer, good cuts of meat, etc.
Without the fear of failure finance companies will always favor the gambling on big bucks in the short term over steady income over the long. Thus they speculate on junk mortgage bonds and avoid investing in new, or even old, energy technology. As far as I can see none of the big financial firms were allowed to fold because their speculative investments eventually failed. I have not seen any of their executives tossed out with out a parachute or a bonus. Lots of “account executives” have lost their jobs but the big boys are still sucking up their share.
We won’t even bother talking about what happened to the untermensch that invested in the junk bonds on the advice of the finance computers. They lost their “savings” as well as their jobs. Modern finance is a great system for the people that own and run it but a financial trap for everyone else. Just as it has always been.
Trying to tout that college grads have a low unemployment rate is just rubbish without having underemployed numbers as well.
The point is not necessarily that they have a low unemployment rate, rather that college grads have a significantly lower unemployment rate than non-college grads. This recessions, like most recessions, is not effecting people equally.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
Graduating with a 40k dollar degree and making $10 an hour, or even worse, not being able to find a job at all, is completely unacceptable.
I guess they should stop going $40k in debt for a degree that only gains them a $10/hour job?
I guess they should stop going $40k in debt for a degree that only gains them a $10/hour job?
The problem is that many degrees are now resulting in this, and regardless of what you keep saying, people without degrees have a much higher unemployment rate then people without them. There is not plenty of opportunities for people with only a high school degree or less. The opportunities are actually really tight, and in a bad economy, they are now competing with people that have college degrees for some of the same jobs.
So in reality, its not really an option to NOT go try to get a degree, because without one, your life will probably be even harder then it would be buckling under the tremendous student loan weight.
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