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That isn't even close to true. Harvard, like every school, fills to demographics. You will find more students at Harvard NOT on trust funds then with. I know plenty of kids that are in Ivy League or Ivy caliber students that are just plain old middle class kids. You will find the extremely wealthy all over the place. A kid from a smaller town that is middle class has a much better chance of getting into Harvard then one that meets the stereotype of what most people think the "Harvard Student" fits, all else being equal.
I think the problem you are experiencing is that you are trying to judge the rest of the world based on a school that really isn't very good, therefor you don't see the kids heading off to better schools. VERY FEW kids here go to Community College first to save money--and most find that going that route actually costs them more in the long run because they have to retake classes because credits don't transfer.
Back to Harvard-if a family makes under $100,000/year, Harvard doesn't cost them a dime. It all comes down to financial need and the cost of the school. Most private schools are this way.
Sorry but it is true. There is a lot of favoring of children or alumni in Ivy league schools and there's the simple fact that your parents have to be able to afford an Ivy league education if you do get in. Schools do give preference to the children of their alumni and you can't go to a school you can't afford. Simple facts.
Like it or not, success breeds success. Successful parents have successful children. All other things being equal, it makes sense to prefer students whose parents are successful. It also makes sense to choose students whose parents can pay the bill. You need enough parents paying the bill to support the school.
There are alot of things schools use to determine whether they want a student and whether your parents are alumni and how successful their parents are are two of them. Do a few charity cases make it in? Sure but they are not the norm.
While anything is possible, it's much easier to get into the likes of Harvard if your dad went there.
It used to be that only serious students took ACT/SAT, which made it a pretty good indication of how many students in the school were interested in a higher education.
I believe they are now requiring that all our students take the ACT as juniors so it's no longer an accurate measure of college preparation.
Sorry but it is true. There is a lot of favoring of children or alumni in Ivy league schools and there's the simple fact that your parents have to be able to afford an Ivy league education if you do get in. Schools do give preference to the children of their alumni and you can't go to a school you can't afford. Simple facts.
Like it or not, success breeds success. Successful parents have successful children. All other things being equal, it makes sense to prefer students whose parents are successful. It also makes sense to choose students whose parents can pay the bill. You need enough parents paying the bill to support the school.
There are alot of things schools use to determine whether they want a student and whether your parents are alumni and how successful their parents are are two of them. Do a few charity cases make it in? Sure but they are not the norm.
While anything is possible, it's much easier to get into the likes of Harvard if your dad went there.
Legacy's make up a very small percentage of Ivy League student populations. There are plenty of people that can "afford" to attend schools like Harvard through scholarships, grants and federal aid--all of which goes to the school. They also have very large endowment funds that provide scholarships for kids as well.
A quote from Harvard's website "Our goal in admissions and financial aid is clear: We want to bring the best people to Harvard, regardless of their ability to pay — and we do. About 70 percent of our students receive some form of aid, with nearly 60 percent receiving need–based scholarships. "
Another quote: "Our most recent program enhancement, announced in December of 2007, has dramatically reduced the amount we expect families to contribute to the cost of their student's Harvard education. We no longer require students to take out loans, and parents of financial aid recipients are asked to contribute on average from zero to ten percent of their annual income, with no contribution expected for families with incomes of under $60,000. Those parents with annual incomes of between $120,000 and $180,000 are asked to contribute an average ten percent of their income, with a declining percentage — from ten to zero — for parents with annual incomes between $120,000 and $60,000."
This is LESS then we are paying for our son to go to a state school-doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.
You go ahead and make your assumptions about college admissions while the rest of us that have been through the process know better. If your daughter is as smart as you say, getting into Harvard shouldn't be an issue for her at all and affording it for you, from what you have said about your income, would cost you less then going to a state school in Michigan. Like I said, the best thing you can do for your daughter is to get her into a GOOD school where the school staff and counselors can help her through this process so she CAN go to a school that will challenge her.
It used to be that only serious students took ACT/SAT, which made it a pretty good indication of how many students in the school were interested in a higher education.
I believe they are now requiring that all our students take the ACT as juniors so it's no longer an accurate measure of college preparation.
Correct. Theoretically, making all students take the exam makes it easier to compare schools but there are too many students taking the exams now who are not serious about them. Perhaps they need to release a statistical analysis of each school's scores. Averages are not the whole story.
How many would be able to pass the exit exam in 10th grade? If most graduates could, that would be a pretty good indicator that the requirements of the school were low.
The flip side of the argument is what is the logice of ticket punching. Of making kids who are ready to go on sit in class for two more years waiting it out?
I do think we need a way of showing that our students have met proficiency in each subject and then, perhaps, overall. Maybe subject by subject is the way to do this.
I, and many others, passed the California High School Exit Exam as freshmen. It made the rest of high school seem pretty pointless. However, the CAHSEE is very easy, and it only covers English and Math.
Legacy's make up a very small percentage of Ivy League student populations. There are plenty of people that can "afford" to attend schools like Harvard through scholarships, grants and federal aid--all of which goes to the school. They also have very large endowment funds that provide scholarships for kids as well.
A quote from Harvard's website "Our goal in admissions and financial aid is clear: We want to bring the best people to Harvard, regardless of their ability to pay — and we do. About 70 percent of our students receive some form of aid, with nearly 60 percent receiving need–based scholarships. "
Another quote: "Our most recent program enhancement, announced in December of 2007, has dramatically reduced the amount we expect families to contribute to the cost of their student's Harvard education. We no longer require students to take out loans, and parents of financial aid recipients are asked to contribute on average from zero to ten percent of their annual income, with no contribution expected for families with incomes of under $60,000. Those parents with annual incomes of between $120,000 and $180,000 are asked to contribute an average ten percent of their income, with a declining percentage — from ten to zero — for parents with annual incomes between $120,000 and $60,000."
This is LESS then we are paying for our son to go to a state school-doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.
You go ahead and make your assumptions about college admissions while the rest of us that have been through the process know better. If your daughter is as smart as you say, getting into Harvard shouldn't be an issue for her at all and affording it for you, from what you have said about your income, would cost you less then going to a state school in Michigan. Like I said, the best thing you can do for your daughter is to get her into a GOOD school where the school staff and counselors can help her through this process so she CAN go to a school that will challenge her.
Care to back up what I have in bold itallics? My information comes from people who would know and they say that being a legacy is a leg up for getting in (friends of my MIL who live in her retirement community who were involved in admissions and financial aid). I have no numbers because no school would advertise that they look at whether or not your parents are an alumni but I'm assured that schools do exactly that. They are not the only, reliable, source I've heard this from. I had a professor in college who presented documents to the class showing the favoritism of the children of alumni as well as favoritism by zip code over GPA and other factors (unfortunately, we were only allowed to view the documents. We couldn't make copies. His point was that affirmative action is still needed because not enough people have a parent who went to college to give them a leg up yet.). I'd love to see documents that correlate admission to harvard to whether or not a parent was an alumni. I'm betting it helps a lot. I did find a document that lists the acceptance rate to Harvard as being just under 7% of applicants. I wonder what it is for children of graduates? I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet it's, significantly higher.
It makes sense. If mom and dad were successful, chances are their kids will be too. I know for a fact my daughter gets one point just for being my daughter at my alma mater. It counts for both admissions and for the full scholarship I received. Of course, she'll have to have the GPA.
I met all of the other scholarship recipients at my university. I had one of the highest GPA's yet I was one of the last chosen. I know that several of the other recipients had parents who attended the university before (there were 15 of us). Two never completed their program. Like me, they did not have a parent who had attended the university before. The attrition rate was, definitely, higher for non alumni parents.
I, and many others, passed the California High School Exit Exam as freshmen. It made the rest of high school seem pretty pointless. However, the CAHSEE is very easy, and it only covers English and Math.
What do you think should have been done with you after that?
I'm leaning towards exit exams because I think that what is taught varies too much from school to school. I don't think all high school diplomas are created equal.
Perhaps what we need is a standardized exit exams by subject. Shouldn't all students who took chemistry in high school have learned the same things? Perhaps something like the AP Exams only for high school credit. In other words, no matter what your grade in the class, you don't get credit until you pass the exit exam.
Easy is relative. In California, I'm willing to bet there are many who would not think the English portion easy due to ESL.
Care to back up what I have in bold itallics? My information comes from people who would know and they say that being a legacy is a leg up for getting in (friends of my MIL who live in her retirement community who were involved in admissions and financial aid). I have no numbers because no school would advertise that they look at whether or not your parents are an alumni but I'm assured that schools do exactly that. They are not the only, reliable, source I've heard this from. I had a professor in college who presented documents to the class showing the favoritism of the children of alumni as well as favoritism by zip code over GPA and other factors (unfortunately, we were only allowed to view the documents. We couldn't make copies. His point was that affirmative action is still needed because not enough people have a parent who went to college to give them a leg up yet.). I'd love to see documents that correlate admission to harvard to whether or not a parent was an alumni. I'm betting it helps a lot. I did find a document that lists the acceptance rate to Harvard as being just under 7% of applicants. I wonder what it is for children of graduates? I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet it's, significantly higher.
It makes sense. If mom and dad were successful, chances are their kids will be too. I know for a fact my daughter gets one point just for being my daughter at my alma mater. It counts for both admissions and for the full scholarship I received. Of course, she'll have to have the GPA.
I met all of the other scholarship recipients at my university. I had one of the highest GPA's yet I was one of the last chosen. I know that several of the other recipients had parents who attended the university before (there were 15 of us). Two never completed their program. Like me, they did not have a parent who had attended the university before. The attrition rate was, definitely, higher for non alumni parents.
It is backed up in the posts. If 70% of the kids are getting financial aid-they are not the 'successful' ie, rich families you are talking about.
GPA doesn't make up the entire story for college admissions. While you may have had a higher GPA, you may have attended an inferior high school, thus your GPA doesn't hold as much weight. Other students may have been more involved in school then you. Only 15 kids in your college received scholarships--maybe the ONE scholarships you had in common. There were plenty of other kids there that got other scholarships I am sure, unless there were only 20 kids in your class. Yes, legacy kids do get a special consideration but they do NOT make up a large portion of ANY college.
I'm happy to hear he actually had a job without a diploma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Then they count as a drop out against the school but I agree with you. If I just didn't care about school, I'd go for my GED. Unfortunately, you have to be over 18 to get a GED which means that a 16 year old who drops out has to wait and we all know what happens when you wait on educational goals.
My brother dropped out at 16, years ago, with the intent of getting a GED. They told him he was too young and he had to go back to school. He didn't want to. He, FINALLY, got his GED, last year after losing his job and entering an education program through the unemployment office. I have never understood why they didn't just let him get his GED when he wanted to get it.
What do you think should have been done with you after that?
I'm leaning towards exit exams because I think that what is taught varies too much from school to school. I don't think all high school diplomas are created equal.
Perhaps what we need is a standardized exit exams by subject. Shouldn't all students who took chemistry in high school have learned the same things? Perhaps something like the AP Exams only for high school credit. In other words, no matter what your grade in the class, you don't get credit until you pass the exit exam.
Easy is relative. In California, I'm willing to bet there are many who would not think the English portion easy due to ESL.
Even the non-English speakers end up passing it. You get about four times a year to take it. You have to pass it in order to get your diploma. What should have been done with those of us who pass? Well, obviously we had to stay. It did seem a bit weird since the state was saying we knew everything we needed to know. Then you have the fact that most teachers were saying they wouldn't be able to pass the test. That made it seem as though the teachers knew less than the students.
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