U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-25-2010, 11:24 PM
 
885 posts, read 559,215 times
Reputation: 180

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Outcast View Post
The replies so far seem to indicate the following:

Black and Hispanic kids have just as good as academic records in school as white/asian kids. There is no link between being black and hispanic and struggles with low grades in American schools. The GPA of Blacks and Hispanics is pretty much the same as white kids in most schools.

Kids from poor families are just as intelligent in their IQ scores as kids from rich families. So there is no link between intelligence level of kids and the financial success of their parents.

Kids with low IQ's have just as much chance to get straight "A's" in school as someone with a high IQ. There is no link between intelligence tests and grades in schools.

So in conclusion, the general feeling of the posters do far is every kid in school can get above average grades and achieve academically regardless of race, the financial success of their parents, social class, IQ score, what goes on in the home, etc. Just as long as they work hard and have good teachers.
To many people, political correctness trumps everything, including the truth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-26-2010, 12:22 AM
 
1 posts, read 2,415 times
Reputation: 11
Let's put the many different ways of defining IQ. I think if a person works hard with correct methods and some appropriate guidance, he/she will get straight A's. It's not that difficult actually.
Lisa
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2010, 12:30 AM
 
885 posts, read 559,215 times
Reputation: 180
There is currently a debate going on at a law school discussion board on this topic by law school students and lawyers:

AutoAdmit.com - What Percentage of Americans........
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2010, 12:37 AM
hsw
 
2,067 posts, read 4,386,273 times
Reputation: 1366
Plenty of "low IQ" kids, as proven later in life in competitive careers like tech or finance, who had high grades in HS (or "well-rounded" HS records) and may have attended Stanford, Harvard, etc...and worked at Goldman/Google

In SiliconValley see lots of really smart Indians, often from poor origins, who are IIT alums, who made their way to Stanford/Berkeley and moved up quickly and dramatically in their career and personal net worth...very few Chinese (hmmm)...and what happened to the Japanese who were supposed to take over the world, per media accts of 25yrs ago????....lots of random white dudes from Midwest/TX who are similarly smart and productive as their biggest rivals, Indians

In NBA/NFL, etc have "different" demographics...not many Indians or Chinese or whites or Jews....hmmm

In NYC generally and in SF's Chinatown (and many other Chinatowns or "ethnic" enclaves like Queens or Edison NJ) see many economically/intellectually underachieving Indians and Chinese....many of whom are illegal immigrants...when have >1Bn critters from economically dysfunctional 3rdWorld countries, will have millions and millions of morons, crooks, losers, scammers...no matter shape of distribution curve...and a few K really brilliant engineers and entrepreneurs who migrate to wherever are best opportunities...yet some regions with millions or billions of critters produce very rare respected, high-achieving engineers, financiers or entrepreneurs...it is what it is...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2010, 01:40 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,755 posts, read 39,181,351 times
Reputation: 28892
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemommy View Post
Let's put the many different ways of defining IQ. I think if a person works hard with correct methods and some appropriate guidance, he/she will get straight A's. It's not that difficult actually.
Lisa
There is only one way of defining IQ. There are a number of normed tests, all pretty similar to each other, and the IQ scores that they yield are pretty consistent. You can define "intelligence" in a lot of ways, but IQ only one way. It is a test score. structured in such a way that the ratio of the score to 100 is roughly equal to expected scores where the result has the same ratio to actual age.

In other words, a ten year old who scores 150 gets the same number of answers right, by definition, as a normal 15 year old would be expected to get right. That is the definition of IQ (not of intelligence) and it is not disputed.

Furthermore, most people, no matter how hard they worked and no matter how correct the method and appropriate the guidance, would never get straight As in a mixed classroom setting with a realistic bell. For the same reason that most people would never become millionaires or ballerinas or published authors following your simplistic if-you-work-hard warranty. And I would say, with a very high level of confidence, that your so-called "correct method" that works for all or even most kids will never be found, until all humans are clones from the same model.

Last edited by jtur88; 09-26-2010 at 01:59 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2010, 07:03 AM
 
239 posts, read 453,714 times
Reputation: 161
In summary, the camp who believe that the actual student is completely blameless in the problem with education in America think that kids from disadvantaged backgrounds and who have very low scores in IQ and other types of tests can ALL rise above that and be straight A students and turn the world on fire. In other words, so called "dumb kids" would all be really smart and do very well in school and in life if only the teachers and schools were better. There is no such thing as a person with below average intelligence, if they fail it is the fault of the school and the teacher.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2010, 10:11 AM
 
885 posts, read 559,215 times
Reputation: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Outcast View Post
In summary, the camp who believe that the actual student is completely blameless in the problem with education in America think that kids from disadvantaged backgrounds and who have very low scores in IQ and other types of tests can ALL rise above that and be straight A students and turn the world on fire. In other words, so called "dumb kids" would all be really smart and do very well in school and in life if only the teachers and schools were better. There is no such thing as a person with below average intelligence, if they fail it is the fault of the school and the teacher.
What do you think of the discussion among law students and lawyers of the link I posted above?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2010, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,755 posts, read 39,181,351 times
Reputation: 28892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter2010 View Post
What do you think of the discussion among law students and lawyers of the link I posted above?
I think it must be on Twitter, because I couldn't find any posts that were longer than 140 characters. But based on those very short quips, it looks like there is no general agreement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2010, 01:05 PM
 
885 posts, read 559,215 times
Reputation: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I think it must be on Twitter, because I couldn't find any posts that were longer than 140 characters. But based on those very short quips, it looks like there is no general agreement.
Most said that over 90% of Americans thinks blacks are genetically less intelligent that whites and Asians.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-27-2010, 10:17 AM
 
Location: New York City
3,998 posts, read 5,233,599 times
Reputation: 3525
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Outcast View Post
The replies so far seem to indicate the following:

Black and Hispanic kids have just as good as academic records in school as white/asian kids. There is no link between being black and hispanic and struggles with low grades in American schools. The GPA of Blacks and Hispanics is pretty much the same as white kids in most schools.

Kids from poor families are just as intelligent in their IQ scores as kids from rich families. So there is no link between intelligence level of kids and the financial success of their parents.

Kids with low IQ's have just as much chance to get straight "A's" in school as someone with a high IQ. There is no link between intelligence tests and grades in schools.

So in conclusion, the general feeling of the posters do far is every kid in school can get above average grades and achieve academically regardless of race, the financial success of their parents, social class, IQ score, what goes on in the home, etc. Just as long as they work hard and have good teachers.
Academic aptitude/innate intelligence and social advantages are two entirely separate issues.

Here's an extreme example. I went to an elite boarding school that had a lot of international students. Some of the students came from extraordinarily privileged backgrounds (including foreign royalty). While some had more that others, we all had every advantage money could buy. I had a friend who inherited over $50 million in his own right his junior year and still managed to flunk out of school.

Some of the students were very, very smart, most were average and a few were quite stupid. It had nothing to do with ethnicity (many of whom were foreign) or the wealth of their parents. Some people were simply more intelligent, or at least naturally more adept at academic study, than others.

Any school, from elite private institutions to inner-city public schools, will have a range of students. Some will be smarter than others. On the other hand, some students will have social advantages, i.e., a secure home life, educated parents who pay attention to homework, and money for outside activities like music lessons or travel. People with social advantages have a much greater chance of developing their natural intelligence.

Every student can't "get above average grades and achieve academically." Some just don't have the innate intelligence. However, even if a student is naturally intelligent, social disadvantages may hinder academic development.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top