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I don't believe schools are supposed to release records like that without your authorization. There are privacy laws and concerns.
Even if you did deserve the suspension, you're out of high school and are maybe not even the same person. To penalize someone for fighting as a kid is STUPID.
I agree. However, on other forums, there are posters who are proud of the fact that they refused to hire somebody because they found out about a minor indiscretion from years earlier.
My son got suspended for 2 days because he physically defended himself.
He had no problems getting into college.
Where did you get that idea from ?
I have yet to see a job application ask about suspension in high school.
They usually ask about criminal records, bankruptcy.
Other ways in which a suspension can cause long-term damage:
1. If there are other long-term consequences attached to the suspension, such as ineligibility for honors / AP classes, ineligibility for extra-curricular activities, etc.
2. In the school district I attended, a teacher had the option of giving a student a 0 on an exam that took place on a day that a student was either suspended from school or had "in school suspension" (basically a full day of detention). Luckily, the one time that I did have a full day of in school suspension (because I stood up to a bully!), even though my detention was on a day that I had several exams (it was just before a long break), none of my teachers exercised the option of giving me a 0 (they all either allowed me to take the exam in detention, or make up the exam at a later date). This can cause long-term impact if a student gets a 0 on a critical exam, especially if it keeps a student out of honors and/or AP classes, and/or causes significant damage to ones GPA.
3. In the school district that I attended, suspension permanently disqualified you from the Honors Society.
4. In the school district that I attended, at the high school level, there was no such thing as an excused absence. If you had 5 absences in a quarter, for any reason, including suspension, a teacher could (but was not required to) give you an incomplete. They had the option of giving additional work to convert the incomplete into a grade, but they did not have to offer that option. If a teacher chose not to offer that option, the incomplete was converted to an F. A 5 day suspension would automatically put you over that limit. A shorter suspension could also put you over that limit if you were absent for other, legitimate reasons, such as an illness or funeral.
5. I don't know if this is true or not, but an assistant principal once claimed that if you commit an offense that would give you even lunch detention (normally a very minor punishment) late enough in the school year that the detention would extend beyond the last day of class (but before the end of final exam week), you would serve detention during a final exam day, and automatically get a 0 on any final exams you would have had that day. I do not know whether or not that is true, since that is a punishment that is very seriously disproportionate to the crime.
6. "Zero tolerance" schools often expels students for minor offenses.
As for whether or not the stand up to a bully: you need to find out the school's official policy, not only on whether or not the suspension that you will likely get goes on your permanent record, but also whether or not there are long-term consequences (See #1 through #5 above) and whether or not expulsion or an alternative school is a possible punishment (See #6 above). If there are no long-term consequences, and if once you serve the suspension it's over, it's probably best to stand up to the bully, and accept whatever suspension you get, knowing that it will be over soon. But if there are long-term consequences, then unfortunately you will just have to take the bullying, unless it's a life and death situation.
In addition to my pet peeve of schools punishing students for standing up to bullies (but rarely, if ever, punishing the bullies), another pet peeve is how long-term punishments disproportionately punish the high-achieving, normally well-behaved student who either stands up to a bully, or who has a personality conflict with a teacher, or who has a one-time lapse in judgment, while completely ignoring the habitual offenders. I don't understand how anybody can justify that.
Other ways in which a suspension can cause long-term damage:
1. If there are other long-term consequences attached to the suspension, such as ineligibility for honors / AP classes, ineligibility for extra-curricular activities, etc.
2. In the school district I attended, a teacher had the option of giving a student a 0 on an exam that took place on a day that a student was either suspended from school or had "in school suspension" (basically a full day of detention). Luckily, the one time that I did have a full day of in school suspension (because I stood up to a bully!), even though my detention was on a day that I had several exams (it was just before a long break), none of my teachers exercised the option of giving me a 0 (they all either allowed me to take the exam in detention, or make up the exam at a later date). This can cause long-term impact if a student gets a 0 on a critical exam, especially if it keeps a student out of honors and/or AP classes, and/or causes significant damage to ones GPA.
3. In the school district that I attended, suspension permanently disqualified you from the Honors Society.
4. In the school district that I attended, at the high school level, there was no such thing as an excused absence. If you had 5 absences in a quarter, for any reason, including suspension, a teacher could (but was not required to) give you an incomplete. They had the option of giving additional work to convert the incomplete into a grade, but they did not have to offer that option. If a teacher chose not to offer that option, the incomplete was converted to an F. A 5 day suspension would automatically put you over that limit. A shorter suspension could also put you over that limit if you were absent for other, legitimate reasons, such as an illness or funeral.
5. I don't know if this is true or not, but an assistant principal once claimed that if you commit an offense that would give you even lunch detention (normally a very minor punishment) late enough in the school year that the detention would extend beyond the last day of class (but before the end of final exam week), you would serve detention during a final exam day, and automatically get a 0 on any final exams you would have had that day. I do not know whether or not that is true, since that is a punishment that is very seriously disproportionate to the crime.
6. "Zero tolerance" schools often expels students for minor offenses.
As for whether or not the stand up to a bully: you need to find out the school's official policy, not only on whether or not the suspension that you will likely get goes on your permanent record, but also whether or not there are long-term consequences (See #1 through #5 above) and whether or not expulsion or an alternative school is a possible punishment (See #6 above). If there are no long-term consequences, and if once you serve the suspension it's over, it's probably best to stand up to the bully, and accept whatever suspension you get, knowing that it will be over soon. But if there are long-term consequences, then unfortunately you will just have to take the bullying, unless it's a life and death situation.
In addition to my pet peeve of schools punishing students for standing up to bullies (but rarely, if ever, punishing the bullies), another pet peeve is how long-term punishments disproportionately punish the high-achieving, normally well-behaved student who either stands up to a bully, or who has a personality conflict with a teacher, or who has a one-time lapse in judgment, while completely ignoring the habitual offenders. I don't understand how anybody can justify that.
I don't think those above scenarios are that common, nor do I think most educators are out to ruin the lives of otherwise well behaved kids. I think you're cherry picking the most extreme examples.
I don't think those above scenarios are that common, nor do I think most educators are out to ruin the lives of otherwise well behaved kids. I think you're cherry picking the most extreme examples.
The school district that I graduated from practiced #2, 3, 4, and possibly #5. So it was relevant to me, even if not common.
My main point is that, before such a scenario occurs, one needs to find out if there are any long-term repercussion of a suspension. If once you serve your suspension it is over, with no long-term consequences, then a student should stand up to a bully, even if it means a one and done suspension. However, if there are long-term consequences (such as what I listed earlier in the thread), then unless you are willing to accept such consequences, you have no choice but to just accept the bullying, unless it is a life and death situation.
I still argue that I feel it is a real problem that the long-term consequences (at least the ones my school district used) were mostly meaningless to the habitually bad students, but were very hurtful to high achieving students who either stood up to a bully, or who had a one time lapse in judgment, or who had a personality conflict with a teacher or an assistant principal.
On an unrelated note: what scares me the most is that it seems a trend is girls bullying boys, knowing that the boy can't fight back, or face very serious consequences if he does fight back. I was one of those boys who was taught by my parents in middle school to never hit a girl, not even in a life and death situation, and no matter how strong she was.
An extreme example was when I was in college, a disabled female student decided to hit me with her crutches, directly in front of the campus police station! She admitted to me that she did it intentionally, hoping that she would get caught. She then admitted that she planned to lie and tell the cops it was self-defense, knowing that the campus police would certainly believe a disabled female student over an able-bodied male student. Luckily, nobody caught her, and luckily, I had no further incidents with that girl.
My son was a victim of bullying. He was a rather small, somewhat delicately-built child and became a target. Like the OP, I fought a losing battle. My ds was told, too, to stand there and take it, and appeal to the nearest adult. Well, the nearest adult was a teacher who chose to ignore the problem, or blame my ds for whining.
One day I was at school, the bully came up and started shoving my ds. I intervened---I put my arm between them and told the bully t leave my DS alone. I was subsequently barred from the school for assaulting another student! I touched him. Barely! I wasn't supposed to intervene, I was supposed to appeal to a staff member. Geez....like I'm going to just stand there, too!
Actually, I'm a rather small woman, and disabled, I walk with a cane due to.....too many problems to list. But I'm NOT afraid of bullies, and showed it. Now, my DS has grown into a 6'5" 230 pound hulk, who was on the wrestling team. I just wish he could "run into" that bully from yesteryear......
Actually, teachers side with bullies, lest they are part of the bullied. They like bullies, its their way of keeping order in the classroom. I'm just glad my kids have moved on....perhaps someday we will cruise the old neighborhood......
My niece (by marriage) has recently been a victim of cyber bullying, she is a 6th grade girl mind you and the bullies were also 6th graders.
I'm interested in how the school handles this since it was off of school property, they have a strict code of conduct when it comes to cyber bullying, but I'm still curious how they'll handle it. Monday, the victims mother goes to school to report it. One of bullies mother was called over the summer, because of bullying, and the response was "it not my weekend, let her father handle it", that's the kind of parenting going on today. They even made fun of the victims dad for being dead which really crosses the line with me, especially because these bullies have zero idea what could of happened to them and their families had he still been alive.
Forget teaching the effects these bullies have on their victims, it's not working, these bullies need to be reminded that not everyone is fit for society, and picking on the wrong person can have serious consequences for them and their families. I was even thinking about going to the school with my SIL, just to see the principals expression when he find out the victims real last name, I would love to to see the parents expressions as well.
On an unrelated note: what scares me the most is that it seems a trend is girls bullying boys, knowing that the boy can't fight back, or face very serious consequences if he does fight back. I was one of those boys who was taught by my parents in middle school to never hit a girl, not even in a life and death situation, and no matter how strong she was.
An extreme example was when I was in college, a disabled female student decided to hit me with her crutches, directly in front of the campus police station! She admitted to me that she did it intentionally, hoping that she would get caught. She then admitted that she planned to lie and tell the cops it was self-defense, knowing that the campus police would certainly believe a disabled female student over an able-bodied male student. Luckily, nobody caught her, and luckily, I had no further incidents with that girl.
I'd be curious to hear opinions on this: if you are a parent of a boy, what would you tell your son to do if he is being physically bullied by a girl? That was rarely a problem in my day, but it seems to be a much more common problem now. Assume that the boy has already talked to the teacher and principal and has gone through the proper channels, but the school refuses to do anything about it. And assume that the girl bully is stronger than the boy who is being bullied. I can especially see this being an issue in late elementary school where girls tend to be bigger than boys.
Would you be like my parents (and other parents from my day) and tell your son never to hit a girl, even in a life and death situation? Or would you tell him to fight back only in a life and death situation, and know that he will likely get a serious suspension from school (or worse) and the girl will likely be unpunished? Do you tell him to fight back against a girl under the same circumstances that he would fight back against a boy? Just curious, since this is a more serious issue nowadays, but not something that I had to deal with (save for that one incident in college, where I just walked away from the girl and never had another incident with her again, it wasn't really bullying).
My youngest son was bullied by a larger kid in the first grade. After several emails to the teacher that didn't do squat, I told him that the next time he's bullied he needs to hit that boy in the face as hard as he can, and he will not be in trouble with us. Which is what he did and the bullying stopped once and for all. The bully and his parents never complained to anyone. But I was fully prepared to take the school to court, if I had to. I had the email trail and I recorded every instance of him being hit and what other kids witnessed it.
Why don't you handle it instead of leaving it to your elementary school student? Have you tried going up to the school and demanding an immediate solution? This has worked wonders for the parents that I've met.
I have also had parents tell me they've had to discreetly warn the bully themselves/tell the bully to back off immediately .... It worked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
I'd be curious to hear opinions on this: if you are a parent of a boy, what would you tell your son to do if he is being physically bullied by a girl? That was rarely a problem in my day, but it seems to be a much more common problem now. Assume that the boy has already talked to the teacher and principal and has gone through the proper channels, but the school refuses to do anything about it. And assume that the girl bully is stronger than the boy who is being bullied. I can especially see this being an issue in late elementary school where girls tend to be bigger than boys.
Would you be like my parents (and other parents from my day) and tell your son never to hit a girl, even in a life and death situation? Or would you tell him to fight back only in a life and death situation, and know that he will likely get a serious suspension from school (or worse) and the girl will likely be unpunished? Do you tell him to fight back against a girl under the same circumstances that he would fight back against a boy? Just curious, since this is a more serious issue nowadays, but not something that I had to deal with (save for that one incident in college, where I just walked away from the girl and never had another incident with her again, it wasn't really bullying).
My youngest son was bullied by a larger kid in the first grade. After several emails to the teacher that didn't do squat, I told him that the next time he's bullied he needs to hit that boy in the face as hard as he can, and he will not be in trouble with us. Which is what he did and the bullying stopped once and for all. The bully and his parents never complained to anyone. But I was fully prepared to take the school to court, if I had to. I had the email trail and I recorded every instance of him being hit and what other kids witnessed it.
It sometimes works better when the teacher knows you will show up in person.
I've had to do this and even escalated it immediately to the teacher's boss when she did not seem interested in handling. Upon arriving at the boss's office, the issue was immediately addressed. Sometimes you have to make an in-person visit to show the seriousness of the matter. It is easy to ignore an email. Less easy to ignore a parent that is going to keep coming to the school to talk with you one-on-one about why you can't seem to do your job. If you really want results, take a man. For some reason, women take men much more serious. When my husband got finished, you could have heard a mouse pee on cotton. All issues were immediately addressed.
Why don't you handle it instead of leaving it to your elementary school student? Have you tried going up to the school and demanding an immediate solution? This has worked wonders for the parents that I've met.
I have also had parents tell me they've had to discreetly warn the bully themselves/tell the bully to back off immediately .... It worked.
Did you even read my post? I was talking about a hypothetical situation. I don't even have any kids yet.
What I meant is that in my day, boys didn't have to deal with bullying from girls. But now that has become extremely common, since the girls know that the boys won't / can't fight back, and they know that the school will take her side.
Again, I was talking hypothetical. I don't even have any kids yet.
And, the premise of this thread is that schools do nothing when students or even parents complain about bullying. I know that when I was bullied in elementary and middle school, if I would point the bullying out to a teacher or principal, I'd just get responses like "Ignore it" or "Stay away from him" or "I didn't see anything so I can't do anything about it". But when I stood up to a bully, I would get the maximum punishment possible, even if nobody saw anything. Total double standard. So your suggestion of a parent going up to the school and demanding a solution isn't going to work (or, at the very least, this thread is talking about situations where that option was tried and didn't work).
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