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Just to be clear: saying that one doesn't want a daycare provider to "raise" their children doesn't mean that the parent prefers to hover over them, or that they don't trust the daycare provider. I don't want someone else to raise my child. My former daycare provider was fabulous, and she taught my son a lot. But I simply PREFER to be the one who is there for my son. As my son gets older I also want to have the flexibility to be an active and involved parents in the schools, as the reality is that many schools depend on parents to help out. We're also committed to the concept of urban public schools, and those schools really need all the community support they can get. I don't think that's any less worthwhile than a paid job (although I do, and will continue to do, some paid work on the side). It's not just on behalf of my kid, either, but because I think ALL kids should have a shot at a decent education. I've been volunteering in schools since I was a student myself, and know there are a lot of kids out there who don't have parents "hovering" over them, or watching out for them at all.
In real life none of my friends engage in "Mommy Wars," and we represent a range of options: working FT, working PT, at home FT, working from home PT or FT. And Ivory, I think on this thread you're the only one trying to engage in a "war" with two distinct sides, divided into a stark work=good, stay home=bad viewpoint. There are many, many factors involved in a decision to to work, and parents generally do what they think is best for them and their family. That decision tells you nothing, absolutely nothing, about how they are choosing to go about raising their children to become responsible adults.
I have, however, seen the parents who "live" through their children's accomplishments; I have not found there to be any correlation between parental work status and desire to look at a child as status symbol, though. Working parents are no more immune from that than their at-home counterparts. (working mothers could, if they were so inclined, use their income as a justification to continue to work; after all, more money means more disposable income to spend on tutors, extracurriculars, fancy educational vacations, and the like, all in the name of providing opportunities for their kids) In short, while those parents certainly do exist, they are not defined by whether or not they choose to work or to stay home. It could easily go either way.
ETA: I also find it interesting that such anti-SAHM sentiments are coming from someone who has, in previous threads, decried the lack of respect given to teachers in society; I think it's all part of the same package. If one doesn't value a parent's choice to stay home by choice with the kids, then it's an easy jump to not value teachers. After all, they're playing an important role in the development of children into adults, and if raising kids isn't an important job then why would teaching deserve any more respect? Does money automatically translate into how much a person's contribution to society is valued? (I know there are people out there who DO judge people by their paycheck; that's NOT the value I want to instill in my kids)
Just to be clear: saying that one doesn't want a daycare provider to "raise" their children doesn't mean that the parent prefers to hover over them, or that they don't trust the daycare provider. I don't want someone else to raise my child. My former daycare provider was fabulous, and she taught my son a lot. But I simply PREFER to be the one who is there for my son. As my son gets older I also want to have the flexibility to be an active and involved parents in the schools, as the reality is that many schools depend on parents to help out. We're also committed to the concept of urban public schools, and those schools really need all the community support they can get. I don't think that's any less worthwhile than a paid job (although I do, and will continue to do, some paid work on the side). It's not just on behalf of my kid, either, but because I think ALL kids should have a shot at a decent education. I've been volunteering in schools since I was a student myself, and know there are a lot of kids out there who don't have parents "hovering" over them, or watching out for them at all.
In real life none of my friends engage in "Mommy Wars," and we represent a range of options: working FT, working PT, at home FT, working from home PT or FT. And Ivory, I think on this thread you're the only one trying to engage in a "war" with two distinct sides, divided into a stark work=good, stay home=bad viewpoint. There are many, many factors involved in a decision to to work, and parents generally do what they think is best for them and their family. That decision tells you nothing, absolutely nothing, about how they are choosing to go about raising their children to become responsible adults.
I have, however, seen the parents who "live" through their children's accomplishments; I have not found there to be any correlation between parental work status and desire to look at a child as status symbol, though. Working parents are no more immune from that than their at-home counterparts. (working mothers could, if they were so inclined, use their income as a justification to continue to work; after all, more money means more disposable income to spend on tutors, extracurriculars, fancy educational vacations, and the like, all in the name of providing opportunities for their kids) In short, while those parents certainly do exist, they are not defined by whether or not they choose to work or to stay home. It could easily go either way.
ETA: I also find it interesting that such anti-SAHM sentiments are coming from someone who has, in previous threads, decried the lack of respect given to teachers in society; I think it's all part of the same package. If one doesn't value a parent's choice to stay home by choice with the kids, then it's an easy jump to not value teachers. After all, they're playing an important role in the development of children into adults, and if raising kids isn't an important job then why would teaching deserve any more respect? Does money automatically translate into how much a person's contribution to society is valued? (I know there are people out there who DO judge people by their paycheck; that's NOT the value I want to instill in my kids)
I wasn't able to rep you again, but I had to tell you that this is such a great post!!!!
Yes, God forbid. Children need to learn to function without mom hovering over them. They need to learn to fight their own battles and mend their own fences. They need to learn to stand up for themselves and for others. They need to fall down, skin their knees and learn to pick themselves back up, dust themselves off and learn something from the experience.
I swear, my mom didn't see us from sun up to sun down. I can still hear her yelling "Be home when the street lights come on". She didn't hover, she didn't spend a lot of time on us yet we grew up to be intelligent, educated, contributing members of society. I learned, young, that my education is my job not hers, that something is expected of me, that to have friends I have to be a friend, to succeed, I have to figure out what is required on my own....all good stuff because mom didn't hover. Of course, she couldn't. She was a working mom to six kids. Not much room for hovering there.
My moms mantra too, that street light thing. But who said a child doesnt need to learn to fight their own battles,skin knees, mend fences etc etc?? I didnt read that here. Isnt that a big "DUH" ? And to the rest of your post, I say, Yes,, of course.
Is there a mom (or dad) reading this forum that doesnt agree about all that ? Cant we be Sahms and still do all of the above and ENJOY our time we do have with the snowflakes?
I always remember that saying (sorry dont remember the author) that our children are never really "ours", they only pass thru us.
We dont really get to know people from forums, but from your posts, you seem very bitter, did SAHMS do that or did you feel neglected as a kid or something? So what if moms "hover'' and overdose on loves for the kid? As long as they become productive, fulfilled people.
I am sure you are a very serious teacher and good "tickler", but you come across as a rather cold person.
Just to be clear: saying that one doesn't want a daycare provider to "raise" their children doesn't mean that the parent prefers to hover over them, or that they don't trust the daycare provider. I don't want someone else to raise my child. My former daycare provider was fabulous, and she taught my son a lot. But I simply PREFER to be the one who is there for my son. As my son gets older I also want to have the flexibility to be an active and involved parents in the schools, as the reality is that many schools depend on parents to help out. We're also committed to the concept of urban public schools, and those schools really need all the community support they can get. I don't think that's any less worthwhile than a paid job (although I do, and will continue to do, some paid work on the side). It's not just on behalf of my kid, either, but because I think ALL kids should have a shot at a decent education. I've been volunteering in schools since I was a student myself, and know there are a lot of kids out there who don't have parents "hovering" over them, or watching out for them at all.
In real life none of my friends engage in "Mommy Wars," and we represent a range of options: working FT, working PT, at home FT, working from home PT or FT. And Ivory, I think on this thread you're the only one trying to engage in a "war" with two distinct sides, divided into a stark work=good, stay home=bad viewpoint. There are many, many factors involved in a decision to to work, and parents generally do what they think is best for them and their family. That decision tells you nothing, absolutely nothing, about how they are choosing to go about raising their children to become responsible adults.
I have, however, seen the parents who "live" through their children's accomplishments; I have not found there to be any correlation between parental work status and desire to look at a child as status symbol, though. Working parents are no more immune from that than their at-home counterparts. (working mothers could, if they were so inclined, use their income as a justification to continue to work; after all, more money means more disposable income to spend on tutors, extracurriculars, fancy educational vacations, and the like, all in the name of providing opportunities for their kids) In short, while those parents certainly do exist, they are not defined by whether or not they choose to work or to stay home. It could easily go either way.
ETA: I also find it interesting that such anti-SAHM sentiments are coming from someone who has, in previous threads, decried the lack of respect given to teachers in society; I think it's all part of the same package. If one doesn't value a parent's choice to stay home by choice with the kids, then it's an easy jump to not value teachers. After all, they're playing an important role in the development of children into adults, and if raising kids isn't an important job then why would teaching deserve any more respect? Does money automatically translate into how much a person's contribution to society is valued? (I know there are people out there who DO judge people by their paycheck; that's NOT the value I want to instill in my kids)
Great summation to this thread
Couldnt have said it better myself. Would have liked to, but couldnt.
And about "Living thru their children", having watched a couple of those toddler,beauty pagent tv shows, I say-Amen!
Just to be clear: saying that one doesn't want a daycare provider to "raise" their children doesn't mean that the parent prefers to hover over them, or that they don't trust the daycare provider. I don't want someone else to raise my child. My former daycare provider was fabulous, and she taught my son a lot. But I simply PREFER to be the one who is there for my son. As my son gets older I also want to have the flexibility to be an active and involved parents in the schools, as the reality is that many schools depend on parents to help out. We're also committed to the concept of urban public schools, and those schools really need all the community support they can get. I don't think that's any less worthwhile than a paid job (although I do, and will continue to do, some paid work on the side). It's not just on behalf of my kid, either, but because I think ALL kids should have a shot at a decent education. I've been volunteering in schools since I was a student myself, and know there are a lot of kids out there who don't have parents "hovering" over them, or watching out for them at all.
In real life none of my friends engage in "Mommy Wars," and we represent a range of options: working FT, working PT, at home FT, working from home PT or FT. And Ivory, I think on this thread you're the only one trying to engage in a "war" with two distinct sides, divided into a stark work=good, stay home=bad viewpoint. There are many, many factors involved in a decision to to work, and parents generally do what they think is best for them and their family. That decision tells you nothing, absolutely nothing, about how they are choosing to go about raising their children to become responsible adults.
I have, however, seen the parents who "live" through their children's accomplishments; I have not found there to be any correlation between parental work status and desire to look at a child as status symbol, though. Working parents are no more immune from that than their at-home counterparts. (working mothers could, if they were so inclined, use their income as a justification to continue to work; after all, more money means more disposable income to spend on tutors, extracurriculars, fancy educational vacations, and the like, all in the name of providing opportunities for their kids) In short, while those parents certainly do exist, they are not defined by whether or not they choose to work or to stay home. It could easily go either way.
ETA: I also find it interesting that such anti-SAHM sentiments are coming from someone who has, in previous threads, decried the lack of respect given to teachers in society; I think it's all part of the same package. If one doesn't value a parent's choice to stay home by choice with the kids, then it's an easy jump to not value teachers. After all, they're playing an important role in the development of children into adults, and if raising kids isn't an important job then why would teaching deserve any more respect? Does money automatically translate into how much a person's contribution to society is valued? (I know there are people out there who DO judge people by their paycheck; that's NOT the value I want to instill in my kids)
Day care providers don't raise children. They care for children while the people who are raising them work.
If a day care provider can raise a child, than raising a child is a 40 hour a week job. Since the parents have, at least, that with the child, the parents would still be raising them.
What does lack of teacher respect have to do with SAHM's? I don't think SAH is necessary in this day and age and given that we have so much more free time on our hands and fewer children to care for, IMO, it becomes too easy to be there too much for our kids. Even as a full time working mom there is risk of doing too much for our kids just because we have so much more leisure time today than we did years ago.
I do think that making children the center of the family is part of the problem we have today with education. In past generations, children were born into a family and expected to adapt. Now the family transforms around the children. If you drew a nuclear family 50 years ago, it would have been two parents, in the center, with two children in the outer ring. Today, it would be more appropriate to place the two children in the center and the parents in the outer ring.
We've had a major shift in thinking here and I'm not sure it's a good one. Our children seem to be struggling. My parents never checked my backpack or made sure I did my homework. Those were my jobs. If I didn't do them and I got a bad grade, I paid the price. My parents did not blame the teacher. They blamed me, as they should have. Today, they often blame the teacher.
I think we need to step back in time in our attitudes about children. I think we need to get back to them being born into a family and being expected to adapt and contribute instead of being the center of the family. Personally, I think placing children at the center of the family has contributed to the divorce rate. My dad came first in my mothers eyes and my mother came first in his. Maybe that's why dad never remarried after mom died. I think it is too easy to get so caught up in the kids, you forget everything else. I've seen it over and over with PTA and room moms. Get a life. It might be good for your kids.
Seriously, I grew up with little parental interaction. I knew they'd kick my butt into tomorrow if I crossed the line but my parents didn't get involved in my homework or friendships (no play dates) or entertain me to keep me quiet when out in public (I was taught how to behave and knew what was expected of me). If I got into trouble, they asked me how I was going to get out of trouble unless I was in trouble with them and then I couldn't sit down for a week. I had expectations and responsibilities and my parents were the center of the family.
And I'm not anti-SAH, I just see no point in SAH in this day and age and see a lot of potential problems in being home with too much time on your hands. People will fill the time they have. I've seen too many moms fill it with doing for their children, protecting them from lifes every bump and bruise to the point they are failing to let their children learn how to handle their own battles. Some times, you have to let them fall and figure out how to get back up on their own. Everyone does not deserve a trophy. There are winners and losers in life. You get the grade you deserve to get and if you don't like it, work harder next time. I think a lot of things have changed because our attitude about children has changed and I think that change resulted from the mommy wars. I think the kids lost the mommy wars.
Your circle of friends is not the world. Try googling the mommy wars. They're still going on. With the children caught in the middle.....
I disagree on children's accomplishments as status symbols. My experience is that SAHM's seem to have more vested in their children's success. They seem to take it more personally, which makes sense since they have chosen to center their lives around their kids to the exclusion of the adult world. I swear the mommy cliques at my dd's schools made the cliques in the middle school look tame. My daughter was not allowed to join the girl scouts because I work. How's that for the mommy wars in action (the other mothers felt that a working mom wouldn't pull her weight). You may not see mothers placing their children at the center of the family but I do. I see it all the time. Not every mom. Some are sane but some don't seem to know what to do with all the extra time we have today.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 11-13-2010 at 06:19 PM..
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