What Gives State Run Public Schools The RIGHT To Interfere in Family Life in terms of Homework & Parent Participation? (degree, paying)

[imcurious]

It is both arrogant and misinformed to label someone who opposes homework and the requirement that parents MUST assist with homework as anti-education. Maybe anti-rote, meaningless, education, but not against education, per se.

The premise of the thread has not even been touched upon: How is it that state run schools have the RIGHT to dictate that homework be conducted off-premises, i.e., AT HOME?

"Mandatory education" already requires that students must attend schools or be registered in home schools, but who has given public schools the authority to dictate what happens or does not happen at home, related to school?

Rote memorization and the repeating of "facts" is not enhancing the education of anyone except those who want to spout facts and other meaningless drivel.

The schools I am alluding to have "homework standards," per grade. Who gave them the right to infringe upon the student's private time?

That is the focus of this thread, not the merits of homework (that is a secondary discussion).

Who says parents MUST help their children with their homework? (What if the parent is sick, drunk, stressed, has 10 children, etc.?) The schools operate as if parents are children's assistants - that they are somehow slaves to their children and slaves to the schools. How did it get to be this way?

Stay at Home Moms, for one - and especially those who take on the assistant role and make motherhood a complete devotion to their children, enabling irresponsibility by doing everything for their children, including their homework (talking in very broad terms and exaggerating for effect).

The schools just took the authority and the parents bought into it like a bunch of dolts, in my estimation. But in reality, they were probably just too stressed from high powered jobs and high-powered assistance-ship to their children. All of those projects took their toll.

I went through school once, why should I have to struggle with math problems? The teachers should be doing that if there is struggling to be done (or else teach it in a way where no struggling is involved).

Now please address the topic of schools being so entitled and the infringement of family time. Thank you.

[Momma_bear]

Originally Posted by sskkc

I guess we'll never agree.

But this country needs achievers and busboys, so it's all good.

And YES! I do believe that children who have parents who are interested in their education have better, more educated children than those who simply can't be bothered. I get that "mommabear" taught her students EVERYTHING during school hours and didn't expect them to do any reading at home, or expect or want any type of parental involvement. I have not come across any other teacher like that - either through my children, through my own experience as a student or through any of the educators I am related to or know socially.

Of course, she's not an employed educator now either. Coincidence? Probably not.

I taught music at the secondary level. It is pretty normal not to assign a whole bunch of homework/reading in music classes. If I had taught music theory I would have assigned more homework because that class requires it.

I think that there is parental involvement of the helpful sort and parental involvement of the intrusive sort. IMO helpful parental involvement means talking to your kids about their work. Providing a setting conducive to home learning. Providing a schedule that allows young students sufficient time to do their homework. Making sure your child gets sufficient sleep/nutrition. Providing adequate school supplies. Looking at their work to see if they are learning the basics is appropriate for young students.

Parental involvement in the actual work is intrusive and not helpful to your child. Real achievement is not getting everything right because mommy made sure you got it right. It's getting it on your own even if you stumble along the way.

I believe very strongly that homework is for the student, NOT for the parent. Homework should somehow relate to what is being learned in class or should allow students to delve deeply into a subject. Appropriate homework varies by subject.

I was a middle/high school music teacher. It is not common for music teachers to give a whole bunch of homework. I did grade my students on how well they learned their music though. I gave them their own CDs with their part on it. It was their job to learn it. Most of them did great with that sort of personal responsibility but some did not. Mostly the kids who were used to their moms doing everything with/for them.

IMO that is the real way to teach personal responsibility not by giving a busload of homework. Tell kids what they will be tested on, give them the tools to learn the material, and guide them along the path. They have the responsibility to ask for help if they need it. They have the responsibility to know where they are in their learning. It doesn't work for some content areas but works very well in chorus, piano and guitar classes.

I am not teaching because I cannot stand the current educational system in my state. Many other teachers agree with me but cannot afford to quit teaching. Luckily I do not need to work.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by sskkc

I guess we'll never agree.

But this country needs achievers and busboys, so it's all good.

And YES! I do believe that children who have parents who are interested in their education have better, more educated children than those who simply can't be bothered. I get that "mommabear" taught her students EVERYTHING during school hours and didn't expect them to do any reading at home, or expect or want any type of parental involvement. I have not come across any other teacher like that - either through my children, through my own experience as a student or through any of the educators I am related to or know socially.

Of course, she's not an employed educator now either. Coincidence? Probably not.

You're not listening, or, rather, are jumping to conclusions unwarranted by any posts in this thread. This is, unfortunately, a common problem whenever anyone starts to question the value of homework for younger kids; the act of questioning whether or not homework has value for elementary school students does NOT in any shape or form suggest that the parent does not value education or want an educated child. In many cases, it's the exact opposite. Parents are -- legitimately, I think -- concerned that too much homework for young children can be harmful (as, indeed, some researchers believe). Not believing in homework for young kids is NOT the same thing as not being interested in their education.

I also see nothing here about parents not wanting their children reading. The issue here is NOT what the kids actually do with their time, but what role the school should play in scheduling that time.

I am opposed to excessive amounts of homework for young children because I think it gets in the way of the family's involvement in education. Then again, I see education as being far broader than what a school alone can realistically provide.

And in case anyone is wondering, yes, I do care about education. Deeply. I also have the academic and professional CV to back that claim up. We simply have different views on the school's role in time outside the classroom. That doesn't make me a worse parent, or you a better parent, or somehow prove that one of us cares "more" about education, or is any more involved in our children's lives or educations.

[Momma_bear]

Originally Posted by sskkc

But this country needs achievers and busboys, so it's all good.

Students who have parents who are involved in their LIVES but let them do their own schoolwork are much more likely to be achievers than kids who have parents that micromanage them.

My two high school kids are very impressive young men who know how to work independently. They are destined for REAL achievement not just good grades.

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by h886

There are so many sides to this issue. As an educator, I agree that some assign too much homework and that the homework assigned isn't always the most efficient and/or necessary. I've considered this debate so many times over the years and honestly, I can never decide how I feel about it one way or another. I can truly understand and argue both positions. I both think homework is necessary for some kids, builds good study habits for later when kids NEED to study for a difficult subject and also feel they need time to relax, just be a kid, enjoy family time.

Here are some of the issues:

1. Schools are held accountable for kids who can't pass the state testing. The overload of homework at elementary school has started happening as standards got pushed earlier and earlier. The current K curriculum is what used to be taught in 1st grade. So long as we keep pushing more on them earlier, you will see everyone drowned in homework. Many people do the pushing. You have the families who demand their child be the best at everything, lawmakers, districts under fire. If that isn't the culture families want, the community/country must demonstrate as much.

Very true. I am also an educator, and of an age where I still remember a good deal of my elementary schooling vividly, and that of my younger siblings, as it wasn't incredibly long ago, but pre-NCLB and the ensuing emphasis on state standards testing. We had the occasional assignment. We did not have 100 math problems. Homework never seemed unmanageable, and family time definitely didn't suffer due to and overload of homework.

4. Schools are responsible for part of the overscheduling of a kid's day, but they are not responsible for all of it. The very parents who complain if the kid has 30 minutes of homework are often the same ones who signed them up to play 3 sports, 2 musical instruments they don't practice, one-act play and art class on the weekends. Then they work until 7:30, take the iPhone with them everywhere instead of talking to their kid or really engaging, but point fingers everywhere except themselves. Again, it's a culture problem. If this is unacceptable, the change has to come from within the community.

Agreed. I privately tutor twin first graders (first graders!) to get their reading skills "up to par," which, in their parochial school, is a full two years ahead of grade level benchmarks - which would be fine if they were strong readers...one is, one isn't, although neither is behind, in my estimation, and both would likely be head of their class in a public school setting. It is difficult to maintain a consistent tutoring schedule with them, because, in first grade, they are working around...swim lessons, dance lessons, soccer, art camp, a whole slew of summer day camp programs (yes, I tutor them in summer, too). Their mom, a speech therapist with whom I work, is a super overachiever, herself, and a marathon-runner, to boot...and she let me know lately that the kids are starting in a youth running club, as well, so that they can do our city's half-marathon next year when she runs the full. So there's that to work around, too.

This is NOT a case of a parent complaining that their kid has too much homework...she is the one signing them up for all kinds of extra academics and extracurriculars...I just see evidence of strain in the kids. It's sad to see a first grader stressed out. It's as if they don't have a minute unscheduled. I see the need for structure, but, MAN.

P.S. Even with their super ambitious private school curriculum, the AMOUNT of homework I help those kids with is totally manageable. Along the lines of "Read these short passages and answer five comprehension questions," "Target these six vocabulary words," and Finish these ten subtraction problems." Not piles and piles that never end. The material may be more demanding, but it's not presented in insurmountable amounts. I'm not sure what all these ultra-demanding school assignments that everyone's talking about are all about.

[imcurious]

I am also a HUGE supporter of reading and teaching children about the world around them. That does not involve any kind of homework. I know, it's hard to imagine if you only think about "teaching to the test" and cramming kids heads full of "facts."

The teachers should be protesting the current state of education. I want children to become critical thinkers, but that is too difficult to manage - schools would rather have robots - people who can think for themselves can be troublesome or dangerous because they can start questioning everything around them.

The music teacher had it right.

[imcurious]

Can people please address the questions posed in the thread topic about schools imposing on family TIME? Thank you.

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by imcurious

[b][color=Magenta]I am also a HUGE supporter of reading and teaching children about the world around them. That does not involve any kind of homework.

It certainly can. Evidently, your sole definition of "homework" relates to worksheets and dioramas.

I have assuredly assigned homework that involves reading independently, and in attending and/or learning about various civic, community, and cultural events and topics of a family's choosing.

The teachers should be protesting the current state of education.

Everyone with any sense, and everyone with any concern at all about the future of the nation should be protesting the lack of quality attention given education, and the passing of deeply flawed legislation as a misguided panacea. Yet, every election cycle, when voters are polled regarding what issues are most important to them on a given candidate or set of candidates stances, education NEVER tops the list. It tells you a great deal about what our society values. It's easy to squawk after the fact.

I want children to become critical thinkers, but that is too difficult to manage - schools would rather have robots - people who can think for themselves can be troublesome or dangerous because they can start questioning everything around them.

Bull. There are MANY educators who focus on critical thinking. I was part of an international gifted and talented program run through schools from ages 8-13 (only stopped because the high school did not participate in the program) that was entirely build around creative problem solving and critical thinking skills, and focused on working collaboratively to solve problems. Through this, I was on a team of children two separate years who took honors at the international level. In addition to having the opportunity to hone critical thinking skills at an early age, I was also got to do a great deal of learning about the world around me as we traveled and met kids from all over the country and the world. Certainly not, in my estimation, a program conducted by educators who had any interest in beating a spirit of inquiry out of students, in stifling creative thought, or in hampering one's acquisition of a multifaceted worldview.

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by imcurious

Can people please address the questions posed in the thread topic about schools imposing on family TIME? Thank you.

Pretty sure Charles Wallace, among others, already offered up a very succinct explanation for this.

[uptown_urbanist]

I hope not too much of a tangent, but on the topic of voting for people based on their views on education: while I think that's important for politicians at all levels, the area where we need to be focusing more attention is often at the school board level. That rarely happens, though; school board elections are rarely glamorous or exciting, and, at least in my experiences, very little attention is paid to them by even the most engaged of voters. A candidate's views about the role of homework in school is one of those issues that could, or should, be asked of anyone interested in running for a school board position.