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Old 04-04-2011, 10:46 AM
 
10,152 posts, read 15,886,698 times
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I learned to read before kindergarten purely by accident and I'm still an avid reader but I have to confess I wasn't the best student. I don't think there is much correlation between WHEN a child learns to read and intelligence. I think it's more important that a child enjoys reading, it will serve them well.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:22 AM
 
3,540 posts, read 2,921,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
Do you really believe that anyone who learned to read before he entered K will do well in life purely based on that?
That and many other things that go into the "building of the superior child" - yes.

Children with parents who stay ON THEM stand a huge chance of landing the few high-skill occupations truly needed in a very complex, hyper-competitive, techno-commercial society. Overall, these people will live better, and with much more security than those who will struggle in the market all of their life, being whisked from one poorly paid, insecure job to another every 2 years or so.

Those children in poverty whose parents can't even read - most of those are doomed anyway. I wasn't even talking about those. I was talking about children of the formerly OK middle class - which is increasingly less so now. Their children will be even less OK because contemporary society hardly needs average people anymore.

To make it clear, by no means am I applauding what is going on; but I remain aware of it at all times.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:28 AM
 
9,978 posts, read 10,658,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
That and many other things that go into the "building of the superior child" - yes.

Children with parents who stay ON THEM stand a huge chance of landing the few high-skill occupations truly needed in a very complex, hyper-competitive, techno-commercial society. Overall, these people will live better, and with much more security than those who will struggle in the market all of their life, being whisked from one poorly paid, insecure job to another every 2 years or so.

Those children in poverty whose parents can't even read - most of those are doomed anyway. I wasn't even talking about those. I was talking about children of the formerly OK middle class - which is increasingly less so now. Their children will be even less OK because contemporary society hardly needs average people anymore.

To make it clear, by no means am I applauding what is going on; but I remain aware of it at all times.
Please stop ruining your kids lives by replacing a normal childhood with the building of a "superior" child. It won't work. Some of your observations are spot on but your methods for dealing with them are not going to be effective.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:36 AM
 
3,540 posts, read 2,921,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
I learned to read before kindergarten purely by accident and I'm still an avid reader but I have to confess I wasn't the best student. I don't think there is much correlation between WHEN a child learns to read and intelligence. I think it's more important that a child enjoys reading, it will serve them well.
Most of what determines who will be "the best" student stands in the genes. But people have no control over those. You're born with what you're born and this is the end of the story.
However, people can try to work with what they have and influence what CAN be influenced.

Of course there is no direct correlation between age when child learns to read and intelligence; but there is a correlation between age when child learns to read and how comfortable he will be with school and expectations once school starts.

The fact that schools start grouping children very early on into "advanced reading group" and "less so group"...do you think that this makes any impression on them? Bet on yes.
Children are told over and over by PC adults that "everyone develops at his own step" but they are smart enough to catch that "group A" is considered better than "group B".
Such early rankings and tracking can follow them for the rest of their school life as well as later, in their careers. It really is a chain reaction, so parents do what they know they have to do.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:42 AM
 
3,540 posts, read 2,921,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
Please stop ruining your kids lives by replacing a normal childhood with the building of a "superior" child. It won't work. Some of your observations are spot on but your methods for dealing with them are not going to be effective.
My children's childhood is as "normal" as everyone else's I see around.
They go to school, they are taken to some activities, and they have play-dates here and there. It is not like the entire neighborhood is full of frolicking kids while mine are kept in the house with their noses in books.

My methods are no different than those of any parent in good school districts. In fact, mine are laxer, for the most part.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:50 AM
 
16,623 posts, read 13,385,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
What is really crazy is to deny the impact of the FACTS I mentioned on the topic raised by the OP. This is a classic case of ostrichism.

As for reading and bonding with your child, do you really believe there is ANY parent left that doesn't already do that?
While reading together and bonding is indeed a fine and pleasent experience, do you really believe that anyone who was just read to and bonded with his/her parents will do well in life purely based on that?

Then we ALL have a much brighter future than so many heavy-weight and respected scientists predict for human kind.

In the meantime, I choose to believe math, physics and reason.
First you criticize people who read to their kids. Now you say reading to your kids is a good idea.

Who should distribute resources besides markets? Isn't distributing resources in a non-market fashion what caused imbalanced wealth allocation in the first place?

Do you really think we will run out of oxygen, and what does that have to do with "superior children" ?

And why do you hate ostriches?
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:57 AM
 
25,170 posts, read 32,934,683 times
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I noticed that too when I was in school and in college. Unfortunately, these so-called "superior" students turn out to be Alan Greenspans, Barney Franks, Ben Bernakes, Bill Clintons, and Himmlers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magoomafoo View Post
As more and more new students come into our school, I'm noticing a parent push for superiority above all other students. Maybe it's just me but it seems alot of parents cannot accept average or even above average children anymore. Our school is very small, 170 students in a K-12. The average class size is 12. Out of the average 12, four are in gifted/talented. I see parents all the time pushing their children to be at the top, above everyone else in the class. It does cause animosity at time's. Not only between other parent's pushing for the same thing but between the student's as well. Of course I want my children to excell at all they do but reality sets in and I accept that they are not going to be #1 100% of the time at 100% of what they do. I feel the parents pushing for this are setting themselves and their children up for disappointment. It's almost like the parent who cannot accept a birth defect or disability in their child.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:03 PM
 
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School and college isn't really "the benchmark" to determine superiority. It was educated people who have for centuries literally ruined societies, cultures, and empires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbullet View Post
Why not aim high? If you only aim for average, your probably going to end up below average.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Bay Area
2,406 posts, read 4,552,061 times
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Really? I think too many kids aren't pushed enough.

My daughter entered kindergarten not really knowing how to read. Yep, at age 6, she barely could. She never went to a preschool, she went to more of a day care where she just played and had great fun all day. She was at the bottom of the class when she entered kindergarten and she was the top reader by the end of the year. Her teacher sat me down, and told me to get her out of that public school. She told me that my daughter was a sponge and that whatever she is taught, she soaks in, and that she will advance greatly.

Fast forward to now. She has been in private school for many years. She has had all A's and is in AP/IB for quite awhile, even now in high school. She is learning her 4th language. She just got a B in Math and isn't happy about it, nor does she stress, she expects only the best for herself, and is working hard to get it higher is that really wrong? Isn't that who succeeds and who doesn't? As long as one does not balance their self value and self esteem upon their grades then there is nothing wrong with constantly striving for more. By the way, she is the only 'caucasian' in her spanish class, she takes a spanish class for bilingual people (even though we are not hispanic but because she is fluent in it due to being so good with languages). Anyway she has the highest grade in the class, which her teacher always laughs at this, because it is a special class for hispanic people, and she is the only one who is not. She says, oh mom, its because no one else tries hard like I do, and tries to discount it, but I explain that is all that matters. Also the same in her french class, she is the only one who is not European, yet she has the highest grade in the class. Why?

So my point is, not enough kids try. And these that don't try need to be pushed to do better. Its only dangerous when they think they are not good enough, they need to know they are, but their grades are not.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:04 PM
 
9,978 posts, read 10,658,445 times
Reputation: 8929
Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
My children's childhood is as "normal" as everyone else's I see around.
They go to school, they are taken to some activities, and they have play-dates here and there. It is not like the entire neighborhood is full of frolicking kids while mine are kept in the house with their noses in books.

My methods are no different than those of any parent in good school districts. In fact, mine are laxer, for the most part.
I don't know a single kid who had assigned reading at age 4. Most kids I know are permitted to play with computer games and watch tv. They are not limited to only educationally elite activities. They are permitted to do lowbrow activities like watch tv and play video games.

Keeping your kids tied into only educational activities, and not letting them participate in technologically oriented fun will not make them into one of these superior kids.
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