U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-12-2011, 02:30 PM
 
44,564 posts, read 43,103,689 times
Reputation: 14375

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by James420 View Post
In a school district close to mine, a 2nd grader was kicked out of school for bringing a cake knife to class to cut his birthday cake, in the same district a 1st grader was kicked out for bringing his Swiss Army knife to lunch to eat his pudding. The parents had to sue and the district changed its rules about Zero tolerance. In the school district that my kids go to a 4th grader last year removed the razor blade from his plastic pencil sharpener and slashed two kids, he received 1 day in school suspension. This year he caused enough problems to finally be removed from the school. I think each situation should be treated differently, clearly a child that removes a blade from a pencil sharpener is alot more dangerous than a child who brings a cake knife to school.
This reminds me of when I was in the 3rd grade and took a Swiss Army pocketknife to school. I just happen to be fooling around one day and picked it up and took it with me. I happen to show it to another kid, just to show it. Never took the blade out or anything. The teacher took it from me and took it to the principal's office. I was suspended for 3 days. I was basically in shock. It was later taken down to two days, but I was informed that I could have been kicked out of the school district indefinitely and possibly jailed.

Basically, the attitude was very hardlined. This isn't the only case. I watched the news a few years ago. An elementary school kid was suspended from school for bringing a toy gun to school. It wasn't even something you could shoot anything with. This "gun" went to a GI Joe figurine and it was tiny. No bullets came with it, no water gun, no kind of anything. Just a plastic-caste fake gun that went to a GI Joe toy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-12-2011, 02:54 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,106 posts, read 39,170,046 times
Reputation: 40515
http://www.pgcps.org/~procedur/10000/10101.pdf


The one I work under.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2011, 07:33 AM
 
11,614 posts, read 19,711,659 times
Reputation: 12046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Joe View Post
When you say zero tolerance, I mean zero tolerance for the offense itself. That means if we have a policy that says "knives shall not be brought to school" it means just that. It does not matter to me WHY the knife was brought to school as far as the infraction goes. The fact that it was brought to school is a violation. BUT I do not mean that a punishment should be made mandatory in the situation. The PUNISHMENT for the offense should be left to the discretion of the school administration and, if the parent felt it was unfair, appealed only to the school board.
This is not what zero tolerance means. There is no discretion given to the administration. If a knife is a Class A weapon and bringing a class A weapon to school mandates a 5 day suspension then a child who brings a cake knife gets the same punishment as a child who brings a switchblade. That is the crux of zero tolerance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Joe View Post
I believe that courts have no business getting involved in the disciplinary processes of school administrators except in very limited circumstances such as racial, religious or ethnic discrimination.
The school administration, in deciding the punishment, should look at the circumstances surrounding the violation. A birthday cake knife is much different than a hunting knife or switchblade in a back pack. They should also consider the student's prior discipline issues, the student's age, grades and ask for input from the student's teachers. Then they should come to what is a fair and appropriate punishment for the offense. In the case of the birthday cake for a 10 year old C student that had no prior discipline, that would be a verbal reprimand to the student and his parents. In the case of a high school student who had prior disciplinary problems, poor grades and was caught with a concealed 6 inch switchblade, expulsion might be in order.
Of course this is the way thing should be. But zero tolerance means that you look at the chart and the chart tells you what punishment the child gets. End of story. It's ridiculous.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Lake Charles, LA
2,073 posts, read 2,257,203 times
Reputation: 699
zero tolerance=a generation of wimps
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 05:53 PM
 
920 posts, read 1,469,943 times
Reputation: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
Zero Tolerance is just another way for schools to attempt to control their students. Sadly, the real problem--too many students together under one roof and overcrowded classrooms--is never addressed or resolved.
Good points. Also how many kids are on some kind of prescribed drug which would cause emotional or mental problems? The point is that while schools are attempting to do the big PR moves of zero tolerance, the quality of education is collapsing. It amazes me that so many school districts are facing bankruptcy as are the states, the quality of education and health are severely affected. No answer exists for the much broader problems,other than cut costs and fire staff, but making sure that kids don't make their fingers into play guns while allowing them to have antidepressents is quite all right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 06:51 PM
 
4,135 posts, read 9,116,913 times
Reputation: 2677
Thank God I retired before this was in place! Our district applied it one year after.

This is an insane "policy" pushed by parents who think their children "may" be in danger/harmed. From what I saw in 29 years, the kids whose parents were first in line for "zero tolerance" had no clue their child was a bully or a tattletale or disruptive in class -- you get the idea: the kid whose parent is for the program is the parent whose child comes home complaining about the h**l he has daily -- when often he starts it.

In the district I was in, even a teacher can't have a knife to cut a cake; they need to have cafeteria staff do it with a spatula.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2011, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,160,640 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Joe View Post
There is nothing wrong with zero tolerance so long as it is applied with common sense.
Which would, by definition, mean that it isn't "zero tolerance", because ZT allows for no consideration of anything other than the narrowest interpretation of the law.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2011, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
1,695 posts, read 1,507,401 times
Reputation: 3289
Remember that story where the kindergartener was expelled for pointing a fish stick at a teacher saying "Bang Bang" ?

Or the little boy who was expelled for kissing a girl ?

Mindless, MINDLESS zombies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2011, 08:52 AM
 
20,793 posts, read 52,363,417 times
Reputation: 10471
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
Zero Tolerance is just another way for schools to attempt to control their students. Sadly, the real problem--too many students together under one roof and overcrowded classrooms--is never addressed or resolved.
No, its a way for schools to shut up whining parents....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top