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Old 06-16-2011, 05:07 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
Reputation: 14499

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
You seem incapable of seeing the difference between professional respect and respect accorded for ones parenting skills.

They are separate and distinct. Teaching is a PROFESSION we are not the parents of your children and yet you keep thinking that we have as much responsibility for your children as you do. It really is bizarre.
There is automatic respect that everyone is owed and then there is respect that is earned by virtue of accomplishment or position. You get the former just for breathing. If you want the latter, you have to go do something to earn it.

I see this a lot today. People want the respect afforded someone who has put years into study and has a track record of success without the work. They read an article on teaching and they want to tell me how to do my job. While I am a novice at this, I prefer to take the advice of veteran teachers over parents who read an article and are convinced they're just as smart as we are.

When did hard work and accomplishment stop being associated with respect? When did it become wrong to say that someone who is learned and accomplished deserves more respect? In my book this never changed but I see it all the time in parents (younger than me) today. They think they deserve the respect of someone with a PhD on a high school diploma just because they're the same age as the person with the PhD.

What's interesting is you don't see this attitude in educated circles. For the 20 years I worked in engineering, the only time I saw it was among my children's friends parents. The educated people I know accept that some are just more learned, experienced and have attained more success than others and respect them for having accomplished what they have. My niece is getting her PhD this year. She has earned my respect because she has done what it took to get that degree. She's done better than me in the education department and deserves that respect. I may be 23 years older than her but I'd go do her for advice. In fact, I have.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:09 AM
 
126 posts, read 200,146 times
Reputation: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer5221 View Post
As a teacher (and parent) it is getting hard to understand why low test scores are blamed on the teachers...where are the parents!
Where is the accountability of the kids. Where is competition about getting the highest in the class, or beating your last score. Oh wait, most parents, most teachers and school boards don't recommend that anymore. No winners, just everyone the same. So why do we need to try if little Johnny is going to get a pass. Kids only do what is beneficial to them, they also try to get by with the least amount of work they have to do. I am tired as a parent seeing our kids not needing to excel in anything to get a pass. Too many kids are having troubles in the course, lets make it easier, lets lower the standards. I blame society as a whole, of course my kids are straight A students because they want to be the best. We want them to do great, and encourage them to be the best. My husband and I still want them to do better than your kid, we don't want them to be just the same as the kids down the street. I can't blame a teacher who has to follow guidelines set up by the district and state.

Having said that, I hope you mark your kids wrong answers in red because it is wrong and they need to learn that it is wrong, not purple or green because it will make them feel better. Just my two cents.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Middle America
35,823 posts, read 39,447,126 times
Reputation: 48636
Student accountability is ALWAYS minimized in these discussions. I teach severely disabled kids, and taking responsibility for themselves is a HUGE goal that's embedded into everything on which we work. They, like all kids, NEED this reinforced if they're going to achieve their highest levels of independence in society.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:01 AM
 
613 posts, read 809,518 times
Reputation: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
: I prefer to take the advice of veteran teachers over parents who read an article and are convinced they're just as smart as we are.

...but I see it all the time in parents (younger than me) today. They think they deserve the respect of someone with a PhD on a high school diploma just because they're the same age as the person with the PhD.

What's interesting is you don't see this attitude in educated circles. For the 20 years I worked in engineering, the only time I saw it was among my children's friends parents. The educated people I know...
Is you saying us parents ain't got no edjucashun?

Last edited by wsop; 06-16-2011 at 09:17 AM..
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:09 AM
 
833 posts, read 4,373,958 times
Reputation: 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnK78 View Post
Where is the accountability of the kids. Where is competition about getting the highest in the class, or beating your last score. Oh wait, most parents, most teachers and school boards don't recommend that anymore. No winners, just everyone the same. So why do we need to try if little Johnny is going to get a pass. Kids only do what is beneficial to them, they also try to get by with the least amount of work they have to do. I am tired as a parent seeing our kids not needing to excel in anything to get a pass. Too many kids are having troubles in the course, lets make it easier, lets lower the standards. I blame society as a whole, of course my kids are straight A students because they want to be the best. We want them to do great, and encourage them to be the best. My husband and I still want them to do better than your kid, we don't want them to be just the same as the kids down the street. I can't blame a teacher who has to follow guidelines set up by the district and state.

Having said that, I hope you mark your kids wrong answers in red because it is wrong and they need to learn that it is wrong, not purple or green because it will make them feel better. Just my two cents.
I totally agree with this. My sons know that school is the most important thing in their lives right now. Their father and I have instilled the value of education since day one. If they falter in their grades even just a bit, (anything lower than a B in homework, we expect A's for their quarter grades and final grades), video games and other priviledges are taken away for the weekend. We also don't allow video games at all during the school week (M-Th). We set a high standard that we expect them to live up to. And most of the time they do.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:25 AM
 
833 posts, read 4,373,958 times
Reputation: 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Unfortunately, we teachers are gun shy. At least I am. When I call home, there's about a 50/50 chance the parent is going to side with their child. I dread phone calls home. It's the one part of my job I'd do away with if I could.
That just stinks, Ivorytickler. I feel for you.

When I attend parent/teacher conferences, I respect what the teachers have to say and gladly implement their suggestions. I assume the teachers have my child's best interest in mind and I will take their advice, suggestions, etc.

We teach our kids to respect authority. The teacher is the authority of the subjects she teaches and the authority in the classroom. Some teachers are better at teaching than others, have more enthusiasm, and may have better social skills than others. But the teachers we've encountered so far have been really good and we're quite pleased with them.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:52 AM
 
1,327 posts, read 3,277,044 times
Reputation: 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
There is automatic respect that everyone is owed and then there is respect that is earned by virtue of accomplishment or position. You get the former just for breathing. If you want the latter, you have to go do something to earn it.

I see this a lot today. People want the respect afforded someone who has put years into study and has a track record of success without the work. They read an article on teaching and they want to tell me how to do my job. While I am a novice at this, I prefer to take the advice of veteran teachers over parents who read an article and are convinced they're just as smart as we are.

When did hard work and accomplishment stop being associated with respect? When did it become wrong to say that someone who is learned and accomplished deserves more respect? In my book this never changed but I see it all the time in parents (younger than me) today. They think they deserve the respect of someone with a PhD on a high school diploma just because they're the same age as the person with the PhD.

What's interesting is you don't see this attitude in educated circles. For the 20 years I worked in engineering, the only time I saw it was among my children's friends parents. The educated people I know accept that some are just more learned, experienced and have attained more success than others and respect them for having accomplished what they have. My niece is getting her PhD this year. She has earned my respect because she has done what it took to get that degree. She's done better than me in the education department and deserves that respect. I may be 23 years older than her but I'd go do her for advice. In fact, I have.

The more that I read this thread and your posts the more I dislike your pompous attitude. I can understand why you have problems with your students and their parents. I certainly would not like someone who thinks they are better than me because they have a higher education.
More education = more knowledge, but not compassion, empathy, and kindness or common sense.
I'm sorry my GED is not good enough to earn me respect, and my years of hard work and sacrifice just does not make me a decent enough person to speak to the likes of you and yours.
I have personally known a teacher who got addicted to oxycotin, and spoiled her own child and verbally abused her husband. I guess she deserves more respect than me because she has a degree.
I have known a man who worked for NASA and was a rocket engineer who couldn't put together a play set.
I know a doctor who likes to drink too much vodka and smokes pot.
I know a judge who sits on the bench and passes judgement on everyone and then goes off to the bars and gets plastered and then drives himself home.
Here are just a few examples of "educated" people that I do not have respect for because of their actions not their degrees.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:20 AM
 
613 posts, read 809,518 times
Reputation: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by LABART View Post
The more that I read this thread and your posts the more I dislike your pompous attitude. I can understand why you have problems with your students and their parents. I certainly would not like someone who thinks they are better than me because they have a higher education.
More education = more knowledge, but not compassion, empathy, and kindness or common sense.
I'm sorry my GED is not good enough to earn me respect, and my years of hard work and sacrifice just does not make me a decent enough person to speak to the likes of you and yours.
I have personally known a teacher who got addicted to oxycotin, and spoiled her own child and verbally abused her husband. I guess she deserves more respect than me because she has a degree.
I have known a man who worked for NASA and was a rocket engineer who couldn't put together a play set.
I know a doctor who likes to drink too much vodka and smokes pot.
I know a judge who sits on the bench and passes judgement on everyone and then goes off to the bars and gets plastered and then drives himself home.
Here are just a few examples of "educated" people that I do not have respect for because of their actions not their degrees.
+1
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 9,126,628 times
Reputation: 9523
I know a teacher who has attained her degree and has risen to the position of principal. Once she got her degree, she simply -stopped learning. She honestly believes that she is better than all of the students and parents because of that degree alone, and has no hesitation about telling them so. Yet - She couldn't make a phone call on her new Blackberry because her daughter hadn't programmed the phone numbers she needed into it. She can't send out emails to the teachers she supervises because she doesn't know how to do a mass emailing - even though her email groups were set up for her in her email program so that she could email "all staff", just the "elementary staff" or just the "high school staff" with the mere click of a mouse. She is terrified of violent students and will actually flee the campus when one becomes threatening or violent, leaving teachers, even office and substitute staff without degrees to deal with him/her. Yet she is the first to sign up for every single class or seminar required by the state, on everything from bullying to attendance - especially if they are a minimum of two hours away, so she can get a motel room (taxpayer-paid-for), blow off half the class, and go shopping. No matter how many complaints are filed against her - even from parents of students who are victimized by the bullies of whom she is terrified - she has tenure and cannot be removed. She makes "hard-and-fast rules" - and immediately breaks them when she wants to make exceptions for students and teachers who are her 'pets'. She constantly sends out letters with grammatical and spelling errors to not only parents but to legislators, other principals, and teachers in her own and other school systems. She has no idea that she is not only an embarrassment to the school system, but actually endangers students by her refusal to follow simple safety and disciplinary measures (all of which have been offered in the seminars that she 'attends').

These are the types of teachers whom parents should "respect", simply because they went to school and earned a degree? No, I don't think so.

Teachers who work under this sort of "supervision" have two choices - they can either 1) teach students with all of their hearts and passion, have classroom rules and policies that directly mirror not only board policies but their own education, go to the seminars and update their education consistently and utilize what they have learned to better instruct and control their students - and be repetitively/alternately vilified, ignored, chastized, and even written up by the principal or 2) they can go along to get along, follow the principal in all of her ineffective and supercilious maunderings and changeable attitudes, catering to 'chosen' students while vilifying others, and buying into the whole emotional, bureaucratic mismanagement and confusion.

Often, if you want to find out why some teachers are really good and responsible, have no fears about relating to parents, while others seem dismayed over the interaction or even refuse to deal with parents of students, you will find that it is the support -or lack thereof- from administration that they receive. There are (or should be) hard-and-fast rules, with hard-and-fast responsibilities and rewards as well as hard-and-fast consequences for all. Unfortunately, with the liberal influences of forgiveness, counseling instead of responsibility, lack of competition, and endless waffling on what are the realities of teaching and discipline, and with supervisors who have attained tenure and see no reason to extend themselves any further, teaching has become a dangerous and unfullfilling profession - unless you are at heart a bully who wants to achieve an administrative position to enforce your punitive demands and attitudes on others while demanding their "respect".

Yes, parents are responsible to see that their children show up to school to be alert, ready to learn, and accountable for their own progression and failures. To blame a teacher for the parents' failure to accept this responsibility is reprehensible. But until teachers are given backing by administrations, school boards, and even state and federal administrations, to demand and enforce accountability and personal responsibility from each and every student, we will see not only the further decline of education, but the promotion of schools as nothing more than socialization and equalization experiments, where everyone is 'entitled' to an education, whether they work to earn it or not, and where achievement is determined not by what the student scholastically accomplishes, but by how well he succumbs to the overbearing, emotionally manipulative attitudes of those who are involved in the bureaucracy of education not to educate, but to attain their own personal justifications and gratifications.

I.e.; small minds and petty, bureaucratic attitudes cannot produce great achievements, great students, or productive citizens, whether they have a piece of paper from a university or not.

JMHO.
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsop View Post
Is you saying us parents ain't got no edjucashun?
It's an issue I see with parents who don't have an edjumkation. Educated parents don't seem to throw their weight around. At least not most. We have a few but most of the educated parents are respectful of teachers. Unfortunately, only about 25% of the population is educated.
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