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Old 06-17-2011, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,827 posts, read 39,487,101 times
Reputation: 48650

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Hey! I passed several standardized tests in order to obtain my teaching licenses/transfer them to different states!!! Clearly, if I passed the Praxis II in my content areas, that is irrefutable proof that I know EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW about my content areas, nothing more to learn, here. Standardized tests being such wonderful comprehensive exemplar of people's overall knowledge, and all.
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Old 06-17-2011, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,763,789 times
Reputation: 14503
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
One has to wonder what things they DIDN'T get the opportunity to be taught, with all the emphasis being on state test content, which is far from comprehensive.
To be honest, my state standards are very well written. However, I cannot teach all of them in a 36 week school year. It's just not possible. Give me a 42 week school year and I'll talk to you but there's too much to teach in 36 weeks minus all the things kids are pulled out for.

If you want to know what you weren't taught, look at the state standards for the class. I'm sure there will be things you were not taught that are there.

There is nothing wrong with state standards or tests if the standards and tests are really aligned to what should be taught.
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Old 06-17-2011, 05:22 PM
 
2,922 posts, read 2,915,721 times
Reputation: 3507
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
One has to wonder what things they DIDN'T get the opportunity to be taught, with all the emphasis being on state test content, which is far from comprehensive.
Absolutely. Our wide range of academic electives has been cut in order to enroll students in "double-dip" electives to provide more time for test preparation.
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Old 06-17-2011, 05:59 PM
 
15,795 posts, read 13,220,880 times
Reputation: 19688
[quote=wsop;19625893]And how am I supposed to get a "second opinion" if I have problems with my child's teacher? The yellow pages?[/quotes]

Another teacher. Every school I have ever worked in would get other teachers opinions on issues with children. Its easier in high school but still frequently done in elementary.

Quote:
And if I try to work things out with teacher and get nowhere, what would you suggest other than going over her head?
Again moving the goal posts. That is not what you initially said. You did not mention trying to work it out with the teacher at all. Your initial claim was to start by going over the teacher's head. Re-read your post.

Quote:
What do you with a teacher who refuses to do anything when your child is being bullied? What do you do with a teacher who thinks the fact that another child took your child's epipen from him and hid it is a MINOR incident?
Again, that is not what we were talking about.

We are talking about who is most responsible for a child's success or failure. Not your individual issues. No one is claiming there are not bad teachers out there. But just because one teacher is not doing what they are supposed to does not mean that parents are not those with the primary responsibility in student achievement.

Quote:
What do you do with a teacher who doesn't announce a Unit test until 2 days before the test, doesn't have kids take notes, doesn't have kids work on vocabulary and then sends home a sheet the night before and says study all this?
Again even if I did believe you, the same still applies. I can give you anecdotes on the horrors of parents as well. If you think a single bad teacher has a bigger effect on a child than a bad parent I will still call you bananas.

Quote:
What do you do with a teacher who in the beginning of the year makes you send in a notebook and folder each for Social Studies and Science but at the end of the year the book is pretty much blank and the folders are empty. Hardly anything EVER comes home. What happened to the 300 index cards I had to send in for the kids to write their SS and Science vocabulary? If 15 cards came home all year I'm exaggerating. And it's not because my child isn't doing the work. Other parents have complained as well. And their kids, former straight A students, have failed a number of tests.

What do you do with a teacher who thinks that making 9 and 10 year olds give the teacher food from their lunch boxes is an appropriate punishment for not paying attention? Or taking away recess if the child needs to use the bathroom other than for a scheduled break?

And believe me, this is jus the tip of the iceberg. And this is the first time in my 20+ years having kids in school I have EVER gone above a teacher's head. And I only went to the principal when in reality her conduct really deserves my complaining to the superintendent and the board!
You seem to no longer even be trying to make your own point. How a single bad teacher means no teacher is an expert or that parents are not the ones most responsible for their childrens' success is beyond me.

You are experiencing the results of a single bad teacher. That does not mean that the majority of teachers are not experts in their profession and do not behave in a professional manner deserving of respect.

Seriously, I have had parents who abused their children. It does not mean I am going to assume that most parents are not responsible in their parental duties.
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,827 posts, read 39,487,101 times
Reputation: 48650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
To be honest, my state standards are very well written. However, I cannot teach all of them in a 36 week school year. It's just not possible. Give me a 42 week school year and I'll talk to you but there's too much to teach in 36 weeks minus all the things kids are pulled out for.

If you want to know what you weren't taught, look at the state standards for the class. I'm sure there will be things you were not taught that are there.

There is nothing wrong with state standards or tests if the standards and tests are really aligned to what should be taught.
It really depends on your state. I received my teacher training and initial certification in my original content areas in a state with very well-designed and comprehensive standard curriculum expectations. I now teach in a bi-state area where both states' standards are significantly less impressive.
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:36 PM
 
613 posts, read 810,153 times
Reputation: 711
Default Lkb0714

Lkb, what I SAID was I would go over her head IF NECESSARY. YOU reread my post.

And BTW, it became necessary!

And you are suggesting I get ANOTHER teacher to assess whether my child's teacher is conducting herself professionally, and adequately teaching the class? Are you serious? And the whole reason I brought up the topic was to expand on your "plumber analogy".

And btw, YOU made it personal when you stated the following:

"Thank you for showing me exactly how you are a partner in your child's education. I am eminently thankful I do not have to deal with this type of parent."


Unfortunately I wasted my time trying to explain it to you. Just another example of a teacher who refuses to accept responsibility or accountability for her actions.

"You the parent should come to me with any concerns but ultimately nothing will change. I will do nothing more than explain to you that I am right because I am the professional and you are just a parent. However, if you accept everything I say we will get along just fine and thank you for being a partner in your child's education.

Oh, and don't even think about going over my head because then I will just accuse you of not 'partnering' with me in your child's education."

I am eminently thankful I have not had to deal with this type of teacher too often!

Last edited by wsop; 06-17-2011 at 07:46 PM..
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:18 PM
 
15,795 posts, read 13,220,880 times
Reputation: 19688
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsop View Post
Lkb, what I SAID was I would go over her head IF NECESSARY. YOU reread my post.

And BTW, it became necessary!

And you are suggesting I get ANOTHER teacher to assess whether my child's teacher is conducting herself professionally, and adequately teaching the class? Are you serious? And the whole reason I brought up the topic was to expand on your "plumber analogy".

And btw, YOU made it personal when you stated the following:

"Thank you for showing me exactly how you are a partner in your child's education. I am eminently thankful I do not have to deal with this type of parent."


Unfortunately I wasted my time trying to explain it to you. Just another example of a teacher who refuses to accept responsibility or accountability for her actions.

"You the parent should come to me with any concerns but ultimately nothing will change. I will do nothing more than explain to you that I am right because I am the professional and you are just a parent. However, if you accept everything I say we will get along just fine and thank you for being a partner in your child's education.

Oh, and don't even think about going over my head because then I will just accuse you of not 'partnering' with me in your child's education."

I am eminently thankful I have not had to deal with this type of teacher too often!
Shame on you for pretending I wrote those things in quotes. I never said any of those things. It is both intellectually and (ironically) academically dishonest to deliberately misquote people to make some sort of strawman argument. If you have to make things up to make your point than something is fundamentally wrong with your point.

If you just want to stick your fingers in your ears and just keep misquoting people go ahead, but you should know that it means no one can take you seriously.
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:19 AM
 
613 posts, read 810,153 times
Reputation: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Shame on you for pretending I wrote those things in quotes. I never said any of those things. It is both intellectually and (ironically) academically dishonest to deliberately misquote people to make some sort of strawman argument. If you have to make things up to make your point than something is fundamentally wrong with your point.

If you just want to stick your fingers in your ears and just keep misquoting people go ahead, but you should know that it means no one can take you seriously.
The first sentence I quoted ARE you're words and are preceded by a statement specifically saying this.

My second quote DOES NOT say it was stated by you specifically nor was it meant to.

But I think you know this.

Unfortunately I am unable to edit that post and remove the quotes so it won't seem quite so confusing to you
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,044 posts, read 98,981,287 times
Reputation: 31537
I think a lot of people (especially some of the teachers on this forum) have misunderstood what I meant when I said virtually all parents want what is besat for their kids.

We in health care don't always agree with what these parents want either. But I think the way to approach parents is to feel that they want what is best for their kids. If giving the kids a breakfast before they go to school is what's best, tell the parents "Kids learn better when they've had something to eat" in the morning. If a student is missing too many classes due to sports, tell the parents you think the kid would do better if s/he were in class more. I know I'm being simplistic, but hopefully some get my point. I also think that teachers (those that do this) should quit reviewing on a daily basis what is "wrong" with parents.
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,763,789 times
Reputation: 14503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I think a lot of people (especially some of the teachers on this forum) have misunderstood what I meant when I said virtually all parents want what is besat for their kids.

We in health care don't always agree with what these parents want either. But I think the way to approach parents is to feel that they want what is best for their kids. If giving the kids a breakfast before they go to school is what's best, tell the parents "Kids learn better when they've had something to eat" in the morning. If a student is missing too many classes due to sports, tell the parents you think the kid would do better if s/he were in class more. I know I'm being simplistic, but hopefully some get my point. I also think that teachers (those that do this) should quit reviewing on a daily basis what is "wrong" with parents.
I have 143 students, I don't have time to call all of their parents and make sure they ate breakfast. There are things that good parents should know. One of them is that the brain needs food to work well.

Kids missing classes is a pet peeve of mine. I had multiple students out for two weeks this past semester for family vacations. Then I had mad parents because I didn't repeat the material. I just told the students to get the notes from someone else and see me after school if there was something they didn't understand. I can't repeat that much material just because you went on vacation to Hawaii for two weeks and IMO, your child should have been keeping up while on vacation NOT returning expecting to be excused from everything missed. Next year, I'm putting this in my syllabus. Unfortunately, the school gives the child 1 day per day missed to make up work so they don't have to make it up for two weeks.
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