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Old 06-19-2011, 03:12 PM
 
15,308 posts, read 16,874,788 times
Reputation: 15029

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Oh yeah, that's different, that's different, that's different. We see probably 100 kids a day in our office. But that's different, that's different, that's different.

When DO you talk to these parents you abhor, then? How do you know you should even abhor them if you don't talk to them?

I'll try another example, though it's probably a waste of time with some thick skulls on this thread.

A kid is missing lots of class time due to participation in sports every season. The parent thinks that's what's "best" for the kid. Instead of adopting an attitude of "these idiot parents", perhaps, AT CONFERENCE TIME or SOME OTHER SCHEDULED PARENT-TEACHER TIME, you could point out that the time missed from class seems to be making it difficult for the student to keep up. You never know when something you say will make an impression.

But I'm probably wrong. Several posters have pointed out to me that parents DON"T want what's best for their kids, complete with links, just in case this stuff isn't happening in my community. And after all, that's different, that's different, that's different. Teachers have the hardest jobs of anyone, no one understands them, etc, etc, etc.
The problem is that it is NOT the kids who are missing classes who have parents who show up for conferences.

Despite your busy office, you see each kid one on one and you see the parent at the time of the visit.

Teachers don't. We see the kids 30 or more at one time. In order to talk to parents, we have to call, make appointments, get them to come to conferences (the parents of the kids who need to see us don't come to school even if we hold conferences in the evening).

I don't abhor parents. When I taught preK, the parents were great and on my team. I only had two classes though and each was a half day. Parents picked the kids up and came into class to sign them out, so they could touch base with me on a daily basis and they could ask questions or tell me about problems. When I taught high school math though, I had 150 students each day and the kids came to school and went home on their own. We never saw the parents unless we were setting up a conference and then the parents of the kids who were in trouble had to be forced to come by the school principal even in situations where we had to have a conference. An optional conference to discuss things like Johnny being too tired to function or being hungry was not an option.

I do believe that *most* parents want what is best for their child. The problem is that many will not accept that in order for a child to learn, they have to fail and try again and again. Learning in school is like learning to walk, to ride a bike, etc. You fall down, get up and try harder.
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Old 06-19-2011, 03:19 PM
 
15,308 posts, read 16,874,788 times
Reputation: 15029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT twist my words like that, Ivory! I gave a simple example of something you could talk to parents about when the opportunity presented itself, e.g. conferences. Quit making fun of me. You do know that breakfast is the most frequently skipped meal and that many adults skip breakfast as well?
Do you understand that conferences are about 10 to 20 minutes for each set of parents and that we have to talk about the actual school issues? We cannot be all over the place when the conference is set up to take care of talking about how well or poorly the child is doing in *my* class. Getting at the reasons for that would be nice, but there is no time to do that at conferences.

If ONE child has a problem, sometimes you can address that in a special parent conference, but during the regular conferences, we have to keep to our topics.
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Old 06-19-2011, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
The problem is that it is NOT the kids who are missing classes who have parents who show up for conferences.

Despite your busy office, you see each kid one on one and you see the parent at the time of the visit.

Teachers don't. We see the kids 30 or more at one time. In order to talk to parents, we have to call, make appointments, get them to come to conferences (the parents of the kids who need to see us don't come to school even if we hold conferences in the evening).

I don't abhor parents. When I taught preK, the parents were great and on my team. I only had two classes though and each was a half day. Parents picked the kids up and came into class to sign them out, so they could touch base with me on a daily basis and they could ask questions or tell me about problems. When I taught high school math though, I had 150 students each day and the kids came to school and went home on their own. We never saw the parents unless we were setting up a conference and then the parents of the kids who were in trouble had to be forced to come by the school principal even in situations where we had to have a conference. An optional conference to discuss things like Johnny being too tired to function or being hungry was not an option.

I do believe that *most* parents want what is best for their child. The problem is that many will not accept that in order for a child to learn, they have to fail and try again and again. Learning in school is like learning to walk, to ride a bike, etc. You fall down, get up and try harder.
One problem is that by the time students get to us, the price tag for failure is high. Failures in high school impact college choices and scholarships. This makes parents unwilling to accept that letting a child fail and forcing them to deal with the consequences may just be the best thing for that child.

Unfortunately, the time to let children learn these lessons is in middle school. When grades aren't calculated in your high school GPA. So, parents, when your child enters middle school, quit hovering. Let them succeed of fail on their own. The lessons from that experience they will take with the to high school will be priceless.

On the bright side, I did have a parent thank me for failing her son this week. I was taken aback as this parent has defended her child at every turn. She told me "It's about time someone failed him." What is unfortunate is that it didn't happen in 7th grade instead of 11th grade. Maybe when he has me again next year he'll actually turn in his work. At least he will learn this lesson before going off to college.
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Old 06-19-2011, 07:24 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
20,839 posts, read 37,540,192 times
Reputation: 20899
With the animosity of teachers expressed on this thread, I'm sure glad I only have my kids blaming me, and no TEACHERS (I Homeschooled mine )

They graduated from college @ age 21 with those tassle doo-dads around their necks (College, (for free) instead of wasting time in HS, )) and I paid nary a cent for their EDU , nothing from me for insurance, gas, food, or beer...@ age 18 they were kicked from the nest.

But 70% of my $12,000 / yr property tax bill funds schools (which I didn't use, tho have volunteered in for 35 yrs)

Outsource USA Education and Healthcare to one of many third world countries that have proven they can deliver a far better product to EACH industry, than the more 'educated' USA !!
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Old 06-19-2011, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
With the animosity of teachers expressed on this thread, I'm sure glad I only have my kids blaming me, and no TEACHERS (I Homeschooled mine )

They graduated from college @ age 21 with those tassle doo-dads around their necks (College, (for free) instead of wasting time in HS, )) and I paid nary a cent for their EDU , nothing from me for insurance, gas, food, or beer...@ age 18 they were kicked from the nest.

But 70% of my $12,000 / yr property tax bill funds schools (which I didn't use, tho have volunteered in for 35 yrs)

Outsource USA Education and Healthcare to one of many third world countries that have proven they can deliver a far better product to EACH industry, than the more 'educated' USA !!
Actually, you do use the schools. What we pay for with our property taxes isn't our own children's educations but the right to live in an educated society. If we were just paying for our own kids, parents would pay the bill as their kids attend school. What we pay for is to make sure our neighbors kids are eduacated. Education cuts down on crime rates and educated people earn more so they pay more in taxes. Hence, free education benefits society.

In order to outsource US education, you would first have to get US students to adopt the mindset of students in more successful countries. There, it is the student's responsibility to learn and an education is a privilidge. Here, it's everyone's responsibility except the student's to see to it that they learn and education is seen as something forced upon students. Some here have gone as far as to describe it as prison.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:07 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
20,839 posts, read 37,540,192 times
Reputation: 20899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
.... What we pay for is to make sure our neighbors kids are eduacated. Education cuts down on crime rates and educated people earn more so they pay more in taxes. Hence, free education benefits society. In Your Opinion and according to 'rationale and theoretical studies'


In order to outsource US education, you would first have to get US students to adopt the mindset of students in more successful countries. ....
I think you may have been stuck in the ivory tower too long....

We need to transform the society in many ways, and education needs to be considered not only a privilege, but a way to stay out of becoming a slave to labor & oppressive leadership, as well as enlightening. (DANGER !!! Our current administration would in NO WAY like to support and educated electorate !!! )


Dairy Farm Boarding school is another great option (it worked for me). Basically, you learn to learn, or you shovel a lot of manure (for life). There are plenty of opportunities and these schools exist TODAY.

There are MANY similar incentives available, but I see a need to start from scratch; which includes re-educated / re-purposing teachers, administrators, students, parents, i.e. - society.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
I think you may have been stuck in the ivory tower too long....

We need to transform the society in many ways, and education needs to be considered not only a privilege, but a way to stay out of becoming a slave to labor & oppressive leadership, as well as enlightening. (DANGER !!! Our current administration would in NO WAY like to support and educated electorate !!! )


Dairy Farm Boarding school is another great option (it worked for me). Basically, you learn to learn, or you shovel a lot of manure (for life). There are plenty of opportunities and these schools exist TODAY.

There are MANY similar incentives available, but I see a need to start from scratch; which includes re-educated / re-purposing teachers, administrators, students, parents, i.e. - society.
Having lived in the city, I'll vote for education. A young person who can, at least, read well enough to fill out a job application is far better off than one who can't. There aren't many dairy farms in the city .

Seriously, higher rates of education are associated with lower rates of criminal activity. Personally, I'd like to see less criminal activity in society.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,030 posts, read 98,929,643 times
Reputation: 31481
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Do you understand that conferences are about 10 to 20 minutes for each set of parents and that we have to talk about the actual school issues? We cannot be all over the place when the conference is set up to take care of talking about how well or poorly the child is doing in *my* class. Getting at the reasons for that would be nice, but there is no time to do that at conferences.

If ONE child has a problem, sometimes you can address that in a special parent conference, but during the regular conferences, we have to keep to our topics.
I did have two kids go all the way through K-12, so I know what goes on at parent-teacher conferences. I can remember discussing issues like missing classes for sports, and the like at conference. In fact, my most memorable conference was when my older DD was in 8th grade. To make a long story short, a teacher saying our daughter had a tendency to procrastinate and then turn in sloppy work did result in us making some changes in homework policy. It seems to me that a student's performance is an "actual school issue".

My point is that any issue should be approached from a collaborative viewpoint, not as if the parents are adversaries.
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,823 posts, read 39,447,126 times
Reputation: 48636
Likewise, parents need to approach teachers as members of the team, and not adversaries. It works both ways.
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Old 06-19-2011, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,030 posts, read 98,929,643 times
Reputation: 31481
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Likewise, parents need to approach teachers as members of the team, and not adversaries. It works both ways.
I agree. As evidenced on this thread, the hostility towards parents is very high. Also, as I learned in my first days in nursing classes, and as customer service people everywhere learn, it is up to the professional to act like a professional, even if the parent, client, patient, etc does not. Having a professional attitude would be a huge help.
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