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Old 06-20-2011, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,758,930 times
Reputation: 14503

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
In middle school the only consequences of "sinking" are that you have to do the work again.

The consequences of "sinking" in high school or college are much worse.

Doesn't it make sense that learning personal responsibility should happen along with learning the basics?
Yes. My point is it should happen by middle school before the consequences are too costly. Screw up in high school and everyone knows. Screw up on middle school and you get to start over in high school. There is a benefit to learning from your mistakes early.

Unfortunately, well meaning parents help their kids too much in elementary school and kids don't learn personal responsibility. Ideally, you'd start teaching them that their education is their job and their responsibility young.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,758,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
Usually working...and trusting that you(the professionals) will teach their kids the basics...is that too much to ask?
Parents don't work 24 x 7. Teachers can't teach if children don't arrive ready to learn. As has already been pointed out, hungry, tired, disrespectful children who didn't do their homework and don't have their supplies are difficult to teach. Now add emotional issues from divorce, moms new boyfriend, yada, yada, yada.... What happens at home matters more than what happens in school.
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Weston, FL
469 posts, read 1,144,282 times
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teachers have the "job" of worrying about 20-30 kids at a time. Parent just have to make sure they do right for their own. We bring kids into the world not to "pass them off" to teachers as their problems. It's a give-and-take. You get "out" what you put "in."
I lived in an upscale community and the tardiness, kids going to school unprepared, kids going to school hungry, kids getting to school tired because they start BEFORE school programming at 6:30am, etc.... Now throw in these issues in along with the problems that accompany poverty in America?? Teachers are still to blame? really? This is not an exaggeration- this comes out of the mouths of my kids- who communicate to me what goes on inside their classroom. How many parents even have a clue of what goes on inside the classroom on a daily basis? How many parents ask? If my kid has a "problem" in a particular area- I'm gonna know before the teacher. I will call a conference so we can collaborate.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:03 PM
 
15,312 posts, read 16,886,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
1. I don't think its that parents don't want what is best for their children but rather they think sports, vacations, etc are more important than all the little things that add up to their education.

2. As for conferences, most high school have exactly 1 set of conferences if that at all. And many parents cannot or willnot attend those. I also dislike calling parents because three times this year I have had to call one parent and they literally took my entire lunch hour. And while this has soured me on calling parents in general I also realize its a small portion of parents.

Just today I talked to a parent of a freshman who some of the teachers have agreed to help tutor (for free) over the summer so she can return next year to our school. The parent seemed aggravated about the need to work around the teachers schedule and was not remotely grateful that three teachers are giving up 15 days in the summer to help this child. That is when things become frustrating.
Speaking of tutoring, the high school I taught in had opportunities for kids to get one on one tutoring during prep periods and teachers made that clear to the kids in their classes. If they had problems with a particular teacher's way of teaching, they could go to another teacher provided the periods meshed. They could also go to after school tutoring (we had college students from several schools who volunteered their time). Most kids who failed never took advantage of any of these opportunities.

In the suburban high school where my kids went, we had a *math lab* and teachers rotated duty to tutor and to give make up tests. Again, the kids who failed generally did not take advantage of the tutoring and it was available during all periods of the high school day (It was a duty for the math teachers).
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Old 06-21-2011, 05:49 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,758,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Speaking of tutoring, the high school I taught in had opportunities for kids to get one on one tutoring during prep periods and teachers made that clear to the kids in their classes. If they had problems with a particular teacher's way of teaching, they could go to another teacher provided the periods meshed. They could also go to after school tutoring (we had college students from several schools who volunteered their time). Most kids who failed never took advantage of any of these opportunities.

In the suburban high school where my kids went, we had a *math lab* and teachers rotated duty to tutor and to give make up tests. Again, the kids who failed generally did not take advantage of the tutoring and it was available during all periods of the high school day (It was a duty for the math teachers).
I haven't been in a school that offers tutoring throughout the day but I can count on both hands the number of students to came to see me after school for help. I make it a point to stay an hour after the bell rings just for this purpose. I'm rethinking that because it appears to be a waste of my time to wait around for kids who never come.

They seem to think it's everyone's responsibility but theirs to pass. Many are sure I'll pass them in the end. I had one mother say "We thought it would average out" when I called her to tell her her child had failed my class. She knew her daughter wasn't doing her work but figured she'd, somehow, squeek by.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:17 AM
 
8,240 posts, read 14,914,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsop View Post
That's the ticket!! Let them sink or swim at AGE ELEVEN!
Absolutely! I know you were being sarcastic, but all other things being in place (a comfortable home, good food, love, nurturing), YES, let them "fail" by choosing to not study for a test, forgetting their books at home, etc. THEN tie that to a consequence. Best thing you can teach your kid.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,758,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Absolutely! I know you were being sarcastic, but all other things being in place (a comfortable home, good food, love, nurturing), YES, let them "fail" by choosing to not study for a test, forgetting their books at home, etc. THEN tie that to a consequence. Best thing you can teach your kid.
Kids need to learn from their own bad decisions and the sooner they learn, the less the lesson will cost.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:34 AM
 
613 posts, read 809,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Absolutely! I know you were being sarcastic, but all other things being in place (a comfortable home, good food, love, nurturing), YES, let them "fail" by choosing to not study for a test, forgetting their books at home, etc. THEN tie that to a consequence. Best thing you can teach your kid.
I have no problem 'letting' my child fail a test for choosing not to study or paying consequences for forgetting their books at home or vice versa at school.

However, I would never allow these things to become habitual enough where my child actually fails a subject for a marking period. I would absolutely step in well before that happened.

That is my job as a parent. I have lived a lifetime that my children have not, and therefore understand the long term consequences of some of their actions. I do not expect my 11 year old or even my high schooler to understand the life long consequences that may result.

That is why they are the children, and we are the adults. To actually expect a child, even one of high school age, to actually be able to grasp the long term consequences of not doing their best in school, is unrealistic.

And by the time they do learn that 'lesson', it is too late.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:35 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,516,461 times
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Ivory, are you similarly forgiving of sloppy work from your chemistry students?

"Sorry, Ms. Ivory, I really do know the material, despite evidence to the contrary."

There is absolutely no excuse for a college student to confuse the use of the words you're, your, there, they're, & their.

None!

And it's absolutely disgraceful for a teacher -- a teacher! -- to defend their misuse.

I expect that all of my kids' teachers will require excellent written work, even those who teach science.

Last edited by formercalifornian; 06-21-2011 at 10:45 AM..
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,758,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Ivory, are you similarly forgiving of sloppy work from your chemistry students?

"Sorry, Ms. Ivory, I really do know the material, despite evidence to the contrary."

There is absolutely no excuse for a college student to confuse the use of the words you're, your, there, they're, & their.

None!

And it's absolutely disgraceful for a teacher -- a teacher! -- to defend their misuse in any venue.

I expect that all of my kids' teachers will require excellent written work, even those who teach science.
Only if they're posting on a board. Work isn't turned in on boards in my class.

Formal writing is something else. It's a different process. Here, I just write what I'm thinking and move on to the next thought. In writing a formal paper, there is a process that includes reviewing and editing.

This is just firing off thoughts. Sometimes, I notice typos after I post and edit them out. Sometimes I don't see them until later.

There's no disgrace here at all. Just recognition that the human brain works in different ways in different venues. In texting or posting, we don't think about spelling or punctuation. That's just the way people think. This is a casual conversation and it is different from a formal written paper or essay. Hence, it is processed by the brain differently.

I've noticed, myself, that the more heated the argument gets, the more you see confusion of homonyms, misuse of punctuation (particularly apostrophes) and grammatical errors like run on sentences or sentence fragments. When posting or texting, we write the way we talk and process the words the way we process words when we talk. There's no disgrace here at all. It's just a quirk of the human brain.
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