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Old 06-12-2011, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masonsdaughter View Post
Well, Ivorytickler, I have to disagree with you there. In the 60's most mothers in my area were stay at home moms. That means that they could do their housework though the day and spend more time with the family in the evenings.
And most mothers didn't have dishwashers, no wax floors, microwave ovens, cars, freezers, permanent press clothing, etc, etc, etc... In case you haven't noticed, modern appliances and conveniences have, significantly, reduced the amount of housework to be done. Plus, if dad does his half, there's still plenty of time to spend with the kids BUT while parents did, appear, to have more time back then, they didn't actually spend that time with the kids. That mothers spent more time with their kids back in they heyday of the stay at home mom is a myth. Today's full time working mom actually spends more time actually on her kids than a 1950's stay at home mom did. It's not how much time you have, it's how you use the time you have.

One thing you might want to remember is the name "Mother's little helper" was given the the Vallium back in the 60's....yeah, great time to hold up as the example of what parenting should be.

I grew up in the 60's. Whether our parents worked or not we were pretty much told to disappear in the morning and be home when the street lights came on for dinner. It was get your chores done and scram. Our parents didn't volunteer at our schools or hover over us doing our homework. They just kicked our butts if we didn't do our chores or make the grades they believed we were capable of and if you got sent to the principals office, you were more scared of what your parents would do to you at home than you were the principal.
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
15,258 posts, read 15,258,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer5221 View Post
As a teacher (and parent) it is getting hard to understand why low test scores are blamed on the teachers...where are the parents!
I agree for the most part, parents AND KIDS are mainly responsible for learning or lack of.

But.....I think that in any occupation you have that 10% of the workforce that should not be in their current line of work. Schools would see a benefit if they did a better job of FIRING the bottom of the barrel teachers.
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
I agree for the most part, parents AND KIDS are mainly responsible for learning or lack of.

But.....I think that in any occupation you have that 10% of the workforce that should not be in their current line of work. Schools would see a benefit if they did a better job of FIRING the bottom of the barrel teachers.
The issue is our attitude towards learning. We've gone from learning being the job of the student to it being eveyone elses responsibility but the student's. We need to get back to holding students accountable. To expecting them to do what they are supposed to. I swear, we need recess in high school just so we can take it away if kids are missing work.

When my dd's were in the charter school they didn't have recess. They had choice time. If you had missing work or your homework wasn't done, your choice (no choice) was to go to the homework room while your friends chose their activities. We need choice time in high school.

As to firing the bottom, appx 50% of teachers quit on their own within 5 years. This is not a job for the faint of heart.
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:21 PM
 
1,078 posts, read 2,212,083 times
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Very good discussion. I am torn here as I see parents everyday who don't care or don't know about their children's education. These are the ones who are shocked when report cards come out. I also see parents who are very much involved and TRY to keep a communication with the teacher shocked when their children fail. I myself am very involved, talk to the teachers on more than a weekly basis and still find low grades every now and then. Alot of this has to do with certain teachers and that teachers lack of motivation to the student. Example...all four of my kids have struggled to the point of almost failing in one grade but excel or are able to maintain average grades in other grades. It's not always the teachers fault, it's not always the parents fault and it's not always the students fault.
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Old 06-12-2011, 11:07 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 2,774,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
...as parents have always done...

It's not an issue of being busy, IMO. It's an issue of attitude. People today are entitled and they are raising children who are entitled. When I was a kid, if I didn't get what was being taught, I was expected to study. Today they expect the teacher to, somehow, cater to each and every child because they're all special snowflakes. Back in the day *I* was responsible for learning. Today, we put the onus on the teacher to make a child learn. MY job was being a student. Now, education is everyone's job except the student.

Someone posted a really good cartoon a few weeks back. It had a 1960's and a 2010 frame. In the 1960 frame, the parents are yelling at the child saying "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU FAILED". In the 2010 frame, parents and child are yelling at the teacher "WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE FAILED". IMO, that cartoon sums up what is wrong with education.

The only good thing that will come out of online/computer learning, and we will go that direction because we're convinced teaching with teachers doesn't work (when it's the attitude of the learner that is the problem) will be that we will realize that it is the kids who put in effort who succeed. We will have no choice but to accept that when every child has the same computer program and can go at their own pace and we see the bottom 1/3 of the class failing.
Ivory, here's an article I'm sure you can relate to. I know I can.

"Why Johnny Can't Fail"
Why Johnny Can't Fail - Reason Magazine
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Old 06-12-2011, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
15,258 posts, read 15,258,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The issue is our attitude towards learning. We've gone from learning being the job of the student to it being eveyone elses responsibility but the student's. We need to get back to holding students accountable. To expecting them to do what they are supposed to. I swear, we need recess in high school just so we can take it away if kids are missing work.

When my dd's were in the charter school they didn't have recess. They had choice time. If you had missing work or your homework wasn't done, your choice (no choice) was to go to the homework room while your friends chose their activities. We need choice time in high school.

As to firing the bottom, appx 50% of teachers quit on their own within 5 years. This is not a job for the faint of heart.

No, I agree with you, learning is not valued by a lot of students. I mean, what do kids/parents think......they will learn purely by osmosis. Sometimes you have to really push to learn a subject, lots of times it is not fun, just hard work.

No way I would want to teach a bunch of spoiled brats, some of them dangerous.
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
No, I agree with you, learning is not valued by a lot of students. I mean, what do kids/parents think......they will learn purely by osmosis. Sometimes you have to really push to learn a subject, lots of times it is not fun, just hard work.

No way I would want to teach a bunch of spoiled brats, some of them dangerous.
I didn't think you were disagreeing with me. I was just clarifying.

Kids don't do hard work today. I'm not demanding enough of my students and I still got told to identify the bottom few students and teach to them. THEY don't read the material before class as assigned, they don't do their homework, they just sit there during bellwork (a useful tool when kids do it), they don't study (but they ask for a study guide - translation "Are you going to tell us exactly what's on the test AND give us the answers?") If I teach to them, I dummy down my classroom in a big way.

My current assignment doesn't have any dangerous students. Just entitled ones. They think they're entitled to A's for mediocre work. My last assignment had dangerous students. I had one threaten to punch my face out. They said I lack classroom management skills... Whether I'll stay in teaching depends on where my next assignment is (laid off due to budget cuts). I'm losing my desire to teach.
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wallace View Post
Ivory, here's an article I'm sure you can relate to. I know I can.

"Why Johnny Can't Fail"
Why Johnny Can't Fail - Reason Magazine


I, for one, would welcome standardized finals. I would love for there to be a test that everyone takes and has to pass in order to pass the class. I know we don't need another standardized test but this one would have a purpose. The state would decide what knowledge/skills a student must have in order to pass a class/year and that would be that. Those who don't attain that level, stay behind. .... Oh wait, we can't have any child left behind, can we??
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Weston, FL
469 posts, read 1,143,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
You invest in what's most important to you.
It's as simple as this (for the most part). We as a family unit value education- therefore our home resembles a homeschool even though my kids attend a public school. I have a book collection that rivals a small library. The kids have reference material in their room. We have maps on the walls. More importantly is that my kids actually use the stuff. Don't know what a word means-- use the dictionary! My 8 yr. old son is a sports fan- this summer he is spending time reading sport chapter books by Mark Lupica. As a parent- follow you kids' interest and get them to use it productively. Be an example! My kids see me reading- they model what they observe in their environment. I will always be there for my kids making sure they have what they need to have a solid foundation as they will become adults one day. I will make sure they have diversified learning experiences whether directly or indirectly. I will make sure they go to school ready to learn and take on any challenge they encounter. Yes they will falter- it's a part of life. They will have the skills to get up and try again because that's what we do around here
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:35 AM
 
12,457 posts, read 27,107,910 times
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There is plenty of blame to be shared. Parents who think their children are entitled to good grades without doing the work, teachers that only teach to the test or spend the day screaming at the kids and administrators just concerned with test results and force teachers to teach to a rigid format so they can keep the scores up to maintain their funding.

We're all to blame for electing politicians who made test scores the bottom line. If you didn't vote then you are part of the problem. If you did vote, like I always have, then we are not speaking loud enough to the jerks that make our schools test-centric.
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