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I have 143 students, I don't have time to call all of their parents and make sure they ate breakfast. There are things that good parents should know. One of them is that the brain needs food to work well.
Kids missing classes is a pet peeve of mine. I had multiple students out for two weeks this past semester for family vacations. Then I had mad parents because I didn't repeat the material. I just told the students to get the notes from someone else and see me after school if there was something they didn't understand. I can't repeat that much material just because you went on vacation to Hawaii for two weeks and IMO, your child should have been keeping up while on vacation NOT returning expecting to be excused from everything missed. Next year, I'm putting this in my syllabus. Unfortunately, the school gives the child 1 day per day missed to make up work so they don't have to make it up for two weeks.
*Holds head in hands and screams!* I said I was being simpistic, for the purposes of illustrating an example. Also, don't you have conference time with the parents?
Re: vacations, crazy as it sounds, some parents need to be told taking kids out of class for two weeks can be very hard on the kid. When my oldest DD was in middle school, two sisters in our carpool went to HI for a week (and mom is a teacher). The kids later told their parents not to do that again, that it was just too much work to do all that make-up.
Gee, who do you call when the kids are coming from a local shelter to attend school ?
How do you tell a parent to feed them breakfast when the only meals they get are at school ?
Better yet..how do you tell a parent anything when they don't pick up the phone or ever call you back and have never set foot on school grounds ?
I see kids showing up in the same clothes for 5 days.
There's no issue with cell phones or iPods or gameboys in these schools because these kids don't have them.
You might be able to do that in the typical suburban neighborhood school but that doesn't work in inner city schools. You have anywhere between 70-80% on free/reduced lunch.
The fact that these kids show up for school 80% of the time is a small feat in itself.
I was in an inner city school this past school year volunteering as a math tutor to an 8th grade class.
We got your example. We don't agree that the teacher should be telling the parents to do what they should be doing already. I shouldn't have to tell parents to feed their kids.
This is what you said "... If giving the kids a breakfast before they go to school is what's best, tell the parents "Kids learn better when they've had something to eat" in the morning. If a student is missing too many classes due to sports, tell the parents you think the kid would do better if s/he were in class more. I know I'm being simplistic, but hopefully some get my point."
What point were you trying to make if it wasn't that the teacher should be telling the parents what's best for their kids? We're telling you we don't have time for that. Exactly what part of your statement above are we not "getting"?
I have pointed out before that we do not deal with our students one on one like you do patients in medicine. We deal with them in groups of 30 that change every 50 minutes.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 06-19-2011 at 05:08 AM..
We got your example. We don't agree that the teacher should be telling the parents to do what they should be doing already. I shouldn't have to tell parents to feed their kids.
This is what you said "... If giving the kids a breakfast before they go to school is what's best, tell the parents "Kids learn better when they've had something to eat" in the morning. If a student is missing too many classes due to sports, tell the parents you think the kid would do better if s/he were in class more. I know I'm being simplistic, but hopefully some get my point."
What point were you trying to make if it wasn't that the teacher should be telling the parents what's best for their kids? We're telling you we don't have time for that. Exactly what part of your statement above are we not "getting"?
I have pointed out before that we do not deal with our students one on one like you do patients in medicine. We deal with them in groups of 30 that change every 50 minutes.
Oh yeah, that's different, that's different, that's different. We see probably 100 kids a day in our office. But that's different, that's different, that's different.
When DO you talk to these parents you abhor, then? How do you know you should even abhor them if you don't talk to them?
I'll try another example, though it's probably a waste of time with some thick skulls on this thread.
A kid is missing lots of class time due to participation in sports every season. The parent thinks that's what's "best" for the kid. Instead of adopting an attitude of "these idiot parents", perhaps, AT CONFERENCE TIME or SOME OTHER SCHEDULED PARENT-TEACHER TIME, you could point out that the time missed from class seems to be making it difficult for the student to keep up. You never know when something you say will make an impression.
But I'm probably wrong. Several posters have pointed out to me that parents DON"T want what's best for their kids, complete with links, just in case this stuff isn't happening in my community. And after all, that's different, that's different, that's different. Teachers have the hardest jobs of anyone, no one understands them, etc, etc, etc.
Oh yeah, that's different, that's different, that's different. We see probably 100 kids a day in our office. But that's different, that's different, that's different.
When DO you talk to these parents you abhor, then? How do you know you should even abhor them if you don't talk to them?
I'll try another example, though it's probably a waste of time with some thick skulls on this thread.
A kid is missing lots of class time due to participation in sports every season. The parent thinks that's what's "best" for the kid. Instead of adopting an attitude of "these idiot parents", perhaps, AT CONFERENCE TIME or SOME OTHER SCHEDULED PARENT-TEACHER TIME, you could point out that the time missed from class seems to be making it difficult for the student to keep up. You never know when something you say will make an impression.
But I'm probably wrong. Several posters have pointed out to me that parents DON"T want what's best for their kids, complete with links, just in case this stuff isn't happening in my community. And after all, that's different, that's different, that's different. Teachers have the hardest jobs of anyone, no one understands them, etc, etc, etc.
I have to make time after work to talk to parents. I deal with their kids all day long. Yes, it's different. Parents don't come in with their kids to school. I talk to parents when there are issues or if they come in for conferences (most don't).
Sorry, but I don't have time to chase down every parent and tell them to feed their child breakfast. The parents do not come to class with their child the way they come to a doctor's office with a child. Yes, it's different. I'm amazed you don't get that.
I have 143 students, it takes about 10 minutes to make a call home by the time I look up a good number and have all the information the parent may ask about handy. That's 24 hours of straight calling I'd have to do, AFTER I do my day job , to call every parent. I don't have that kind of time. It can be difficult just to call the kids who are creating issues for me. Often parents aren't home yet when school is over. I've had to stay at school until 7:00 PM and go in on Saturdays in order to talk to a parent I needed to talk to without using my home phone (and devulging my phone number (even if you use the block, they can still call the last number. I've had them do it.)). Do you stay late and go in on your day off to talk to parents? You have no idea how unreasonable your suggestion is. It's not simplistic, it's rediculous.
I call on issues when they cannot be resolved at school and talk to parents at parent teacher conferences. That works out to be about 30% of my student's parents over the course of the year. Other than that, we rely on parents to check grades and attendance on line. For most of my students, I will not speak to their parents unless the parent contacts me. I put out fires. That's all I have time for. If I put in 4 hours on Saturday's making calls (a time when I'm actually likely to get a parent at home) and spent 4 hours each day on calls, it would take me 8 weeks to contact all of my student's parents. Are you willing to give up your day off for 8 weeks to tell parents what they should already know? I'm betting no. In fact, I'm willing to bet that if you have need to call a parent, you're given time when you're being paid to do it. You and I live in totally different worlds when it comes to dealing with parents and having time to deal with parents. For you, it's built in. For me it is not.
What you do is ENTIRELY different. You see the parents when you see the child. I don't. I have to track down the parents to talk to them. You don't!!! You have the parents, right there, when you see the child to make a comment to. It takes you no extra effort or time. It takes me a lot of extra effort and time because I DON'T have the parents right there when I see their child. YES, IT'S DIFFERENT.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 06-19-2011 at 06:58 AM..
I have to make time after work to talk to parents. I deal with their kids all day long. Yes, it's different. Parents don't come in with their kids to school. I talk to parents when there are issues or if they come in for conferences (most don't).
Sorry, but I don't have time to chase down every parent and tell them to feed their child breakfast. The parents do not come to class with their child the way they come to a doctor's office with a child. Yes, it's different. I'm amazed you don't get that.
I have 143 students, it takes about 10 minutes to make a call home by the time I look up a good number and have all the information the parent may ask about handy. That's 24 hours of straight calling I'd have to do, AFTER I do my day job , to call every parent. I don't have that kind of time. It can be difficult just to call the kids who are creating issues for me. Often parents aren't home yet when school is over. I've had to stay at school until 7:00 PM and go in on Saturdays in order to talk to a parent I needed to talk to without using my home phone (and devulging my phone number (even if you use the block, they can still call the last number. I've had them do it.)). Do you stay late and go in on your day off to talk to parents? You have no idea how unreasonable your suggestion is. It's not simplistic, it's rediculous.
I call on issues when they cannot be resolved at school and talk to parents at parent teacher conferences. That works out to be about 30% of my student's parents over the course of the year. Other than that, we rely on parents to check grades and attendance on line. For most of my students, I will not speak to their parents unless the parent contacts me. I put out fires. That's all I have time for. If I put in 4 hours on Saturday's making calls (a time when I'm actually likely to get a parent at home) and spent 4 hours each day on calls, it would take me 8 weeks to contact all of my student's parents. Are you willing to give up your day off for 8 weeks to tell parents what they should already know? I'm betting no. In fact, I'm willing to bet that if you have need to call a parent, you're given time when you're being paid to do it. You and I live in totally different worlds when it comes to dealing with parents and having time to deal with parents. For you, it's built in. For me it is not.
What you do is ENTIRELY different. You see the parents when you see the child. I don't. I have to track down the parents to talk to them. You don't!!! You have the parents, right there, when you see the child to make a comment to. It takes you no extra effort or time. It takes me a lot of extra effort and time because I DON'T have the parents right there when I see their child. YES, IT'S DIFFERENT.
I am sorry I used the breakfast example. You seem to be stuck on it. And quit smacking me.
Let me put it very theoretically:
Instead of assuming the parent does not care about the kid, wants to kill or otherwise abuse the child, etc, for a change assume that the parent does care about the kid. WHEN you have contact with the parents, take it from that point.
I am sorry I used the breakfast example. You seem to be stuck on it. And quit smacking me.
Let me put it very theoretically:
Instead of assuming the parent does not care about the kid, wants to kill or otherwise abuse the child, etc, for a change assume that the parent does care about the kid. WHEN you have contact with the parents, take it from that point.
The point, which you can't seem to get is that I don't have contact with most of my student's parents without staying late and going out of my way to make that contact. YOU OTOH see the parents WHEN YOU SEE THE CHILD. You also fail to understand the nature of conversations between teachers and parents when they happen. Do you, seriously, expect me to start interrogating parents WRT their menus and bed times for their child if it's not a logical offshoot of the conversation at hand? Do you not realize how accusatory and judgemental that is?
When you see patients, parents are asking what they can do WRT the medical situation at hand. Answering is logical. When I see parents, they aren't asking my advice on what to serve or whether to serve breakfast. Do you not realize that the level of concern is different in when comparing a medical situation the parents are unfamiliar with to the school day???? Something they've been dealing with for, oh, 11 years before they even meet me???? Assuming they have only one child or I have their first?
And it's my own head I'm smacking because you just don't get how different our situations are. Unless the parent is asking about what to serve for breakfast, I highly doubt they'll appreciate me telling them they need to feed their kid. They probably won't appreciate the assumption they don't feed their kid. And I'm not the person you'd ask for dietary advice anyway. Take that question to the biology teacher or the home ec teacher or the nurse at your doctor's office .
If I'm calling home due to absences, it's a no brainer that the issue is absences. If I'm calling home because a child doesn't do their work, it's a no brainer the issue is they aren't getting their work done. If I call home because they're sleeping in class, again, it's a no brainer they need an earlier bedtime. I don't interrogate parents on other habits when I happen to have them on the phone. That would be unwarranted, intrusive and unwelcome. I actually have no idea who eats breakfast and who doesn't beyond my own children. I couldn't tell you how much homework most of my students do and whether or not it's enough (parents have a better understanding of their child's ability than I do.). To ASSume they are not eating breakfast or doing enough homework and that I need to tell their parents these things would go over like a Xenon filled balloon (drops like a rock if you haven't seen one).
I assume that parents are pretty set in their ways WRT how to handle education and their child by the time they get to me. The only advice, I, logically, offer is advice that is unique to the subject I teach. For example, parents may not realize the importance of reading the material before the lectures (I require reading notes be submitted on the day of the lecture for this reason). However, I am not going to start going down a list of things parents should already know to do assuming they need to be told to do them without evidence they are not being done. In most cases, I don't know whether a child eats breakfast, gets enough sleep or does enough homework.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 06-19-2011 at 07:45 AM..
The point, which you can't seem to get is that I don't have contact with most of my student's parents without staying late and going out of my way to make that contact. YOU OTOH see the parents WHEN YOU SEE THE CHILD. You also fail to understand the nature of conversations between teachers and parents when they happen. Do you, seriously, expect me to start interrogating parents WRT their menus and bed times for their child if it's not a logical offshoot of the conversation at hand? Do you not realize how accusatory and judgemental that is?
When you see patients, parents are asking what they can do WRT the medical situation at hand. Answering is logical. When I see parents, they aren't asking my advice on what to serve or whether to serve breakfast. Do you not realize that the level of concern is different in when comparing a medical situation the parents are unfamiliar with to the school day???? Something they've been dealing with for, oh, 11 years before they even meet me???? Assuming they have only one child or I have their first?
And it's my own head I'm smacking because you just don't get how different our situations are.
If you're so damn concerned about kids not eating breakfast (here we go again with something I picked as an example b/c you bring it up constantly so I thought you'd relate), why don't you talk to their parents about it? And whatever you talk to them about, why not approach it from the point of view that the parent wants to do what is right, instead of from the POV that the parent doesn't give a rip about their kid?
Your second paragraph shows you have no clue what goes on in my job. "Logical"? Surely you jest. And get off this breakfast thing! I'm sorry I ever mentioned it, though you bring it up regularly!
I think our situations are far more similar than you think, but it's this "teacher mindset" that "nobody knows the trouble I've seen". It's the principle I'm talking about, the principle that the parents want what's best for their kid!
The point, which you can't seem to get is that I don't have contact with most of my student's parents without staying late and going out of my way to make that contact.
Isn't that part of your job? And don't most teachers realize before going into teaching that a lot of their work is done OUTSIDE of the time when kids are sitting in class?
You keep going on and on about not having enough time for this or enough time for that, but you seem to have plenty of time to post all over CD every day at all times of the day and night.
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