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I don't have an answer to your question. I don't work in education. I just know that the current educational system sucks. And I don't blame the teachers individually, but the entire system. I have faith in positive change and agree with a performance-based system.
It can't get any worse, so I'm willing to wait the 5 to 10 years to see how things pan out. We're not talking about an eternity here. It's a very short period of time.
I don't have an answer to your question. I don't work in education. I just know that the current educational system sucks. And I don't blame the teachers individually, but the entire system. I have faith in positive change and agree with a performance-based system.
It can't get any worse, so I'm willing to wait the 5 to 10 years to see how things pan out. We're not talking about an eternity here. It's a very short period of time.
I'm telling why a performance based system will not work in education. Education is not a business. We are not making a product with a consistent stream of raw materials. Our process cannot be honed because it must flex year after year. Each year presents a new set of challenges. Each batch of kids is different. Each child is different. They come to use with different backgrounds (things like home lives we have NO control over).
I'm not willing to waid 5-10 years to see how things pan out. Neither are a lot of good teachers I know. I'm surprised that you are complacent enough with the government to think that they'll just work this out in 5-10 years. When was the last time the government worked anything out in any number of years?
If those who support merit pay don't have an answer, there won't be one. You see, the measureables are wrong. You can't measure my performance based on my student's performance on tests they care nothing about. It won't work.
I'm telling why a performance based system will not work in education. Education is not a business. We are not making a product with a consistent stream of raw materials. Our process cannot be honed because it must flex year after year. Each year presents a new set of challenges. Each batch of kids is different. Each child is different. They come to use with different backgrounds (things like home lives we have NO control over).
I'm not willing to waid 5-10 years to see how things pan out. Neither are a lot of good teachers I know. I'm surprised that you are complacent enough with the government to think that they'll just work this out in 5-10 years. When was the last time the government worked anything out in any number of years?
If those who support merit pay don't have an answer, there won't be one. You see, the measureables are wrong. You can't measure my performance based on my student's performance on tests they care nothing about. It won't work.
We tried it one way, it didn't work. We're trying another way now. Do you have an alternate option? Why are teachers not willing to wait a short period of time to see how things pan out? I also have faith in the economics around teaching staff.
NJBest: Although I am heartened that you think me/us to be normal, I have no intention of waiting 5-10 years for others to fumble around with this issue. I think I should jump into the fray and lend a hand.
In reality, the local district will set up a committee to determine the measures of merit to be used to evaluate teacher performance and distribute merit pay. A bit too much for a short blog. That being the case, I am hopeful that it will be done in a way that is reasonably objective. Ultimately, the system must function to reward good teaching sufficiently to attract more good teachers, under all circumstances. The one thing that is certain, is that the standardized test results cannot be the only measure. In Idaho, most teacher-product is not measured on the Isats.
You'd better lend a hand. Waiting for the government to just work something out is dangerous at the least. I will tell you one thing. If they start tying my pay to student performance on tests, I'm out of teaching. I know several other teachers who plan to leave as well. We're not going to sit around while they figure this out. We can make more in industry and have less headaches.
Merit pay won't work in teaching. Teaching is not like production engineering. We don't have a consistent supply of raw materials, each student responds differently to different things and in production engineering, you don't ask your product to evaluate the process that made them . Merit pay will become a popularity contest. Popular teachers will have students who try on the tests and unpopular teachers will have students throw the test because you have just handed a lot of power to students to get back at a teacher they thought was too hard. Does anyone really think teenagers will use that power wisely? I don't.
You'd better lend a hand. Waiting for the government to just work something out is dangerous at the least. I will tell you one thing. If they start tying my pay to student performance on tests, I'm out of teaching. I know several other teachers who plan to leave as well. We're not going to sit around while they figure this out. We can make more in industry and have less headaches.
Merit pay won't work in teaching. Teaching is not like production engineering. We don't have a consistent supply of raw materials, each student responds differently to different things and in production engineering, you don't ask your product to evaluate the process that made them . Merit pay will become a popularity contest. Popular teachers will have students who try on the tests and unpopular teachers will have students throw the test because you have just handed a lot of power to students to get back at a teacher they thought was too hard. Does anyone really think teenagers will use that power wisely? I don't.
How do you suggest we fix this horrible education system?
We tried it one way, it didn't work. We're trying another way now. Do you have an alternate option? Why are teachers not willing to wait a short period of time to see how things pan out? I also have faith in the economics around teaching staff.
I find it amazing that you support merit pay and you DON'T!!!
Evaluate me on how I teach!!! Come into my classroom and watch me teach. Judge ME on the job *I* do not what someone else who has ulterior motives has to say about it. Like it or not, my students are not the ones to gather information from regarding my teaching. THAT would be a popularity contest. Now, what do you think teaching will look like after 10 years of rating teachers based on a popularity contest?
Until someone devises a way to motivate ALL students to try their best on ALL tests, test scores are useless. Test scores don't reflect a student's ability or what they learned. They reflect a combination of what they know AND their motivation to demonstrate that knowledge. IMO, if you are going to use test scores to judge me and the school I teach in, then you have to go to standardized exit exams for each class and each grade. Tie the student's passing or failing to the test and then I'll believe they tried their best. Then you might be able to use test scores to judge me but, again, you'll need longitudinal data not just data from a few years. You'll have to look at trends, which can be misleading because a teacher may be improving year over year but it will take several years to see the improvement. So, we're back to evaluating me in the classroom....
I've been in industry and I'm now in teaching and I'm telling you that merit pay will not work. You will drive good teachers out of teaching and popular teachers will get raises. In 10 years, you'll have a system of popular teachers with people who couldn't find a job elsewhere filling in the vacancies because there will be vacancies when those who can do and those who can't are the only ones left to teach.
I find it amazing that you support merit pay and you DON'T!!!
Evaluate me on how I teach!!! Come into my classroom and watch me teach. Judge ME on the job *I* do not what someone else who has ulterior motives has to say about it. Like it or not, my students are not the ones to gather information from regarding my teaching. THAT would be a popularity contest. Now, what do you think teaching will look like after 10 years of rating teachers based on a popularity contest?
Maybe I'm misinformed. Are the students to provide subjective feedback or are they being tested academically? If being tested academically, I feel the results can be accurate within β.
Thus, if they are tested academically, I think teaching will be good. If it's subjective feedback from students, then maybe I need to look into this further.
IMO, if you are going to use test scores to judge me and the school I teach in, then you have to go to standardized exit exams for each class and each grade. Tie the student's passing or failing to the test and then I'll believe they tried their best.
I'm sorry, I don't understand your question? Could you please clarify?
Sorry, bad typo.
How do you suggest we fix this horrible education system?
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. Merit pay will become a popularity contest. Popular teachers will have students who try on the tests and unpopular teachers will have students throw the test because you have just handed a lot of power to students to get back at a teacher they thought was too hard. Does anyone really think teenagers will use that power wisely? I don't.
